huron tribs
- Thread starter giller
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Fish Bones
Well-Known Member
Nice to see some people just dont get the hint.......lock it up [xx(]
fished the valley last night got 2 coho..both released..only like bows too. We havent even released our hatchery yet ,which is really late, into the bayfield cause the low water in the feeder creeks.Need rain or else us bayfield anglers club may lose a crop.,just a reminder we're always looking for new members
WE HAVE A MEETING COMING UP AT THE ROD AND GUN CLUB IN CLINTON ON THE 29 TH, CONCERNING WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE LOW WATER AND THE HATCHERY FISH, MAIN MEETING IS ONCE A YR THE LAST SAT OF MARCH 1 PM AT THE ROD AND GUN, WE HAVE OUR OWN HATCHERY ON THE BAYFIELD PRIVATE PROPERTY . HERES THE FUNNY PART AVERAGE AGE OF30 MEMBERS IS 65 4 PEOPLE UNDER 40. CLUB BEEN AROUND 35 YR, AVERAGE 60,000 FRY.PER YR..5 CREEKS.VERY SMALL MEMBERS FEE. LATE NOV OWN DERBY. BE GLAD TO HAVE YOU
As an avid Steelheader who has spent a rediculous amount of time of that river I would absolutely love to be involved with a club that has the best interests of the steelhead population in mind.
I have heard rumors of how the average of 60000 are distributed. Could you confirm what percentage are put into the Bayfield and how many go elsewhere? I was happy to hear a couple years ago that those fingerlings are being kept a little longer in the hatchery hopefully improving survival rates but I still have my doubts as to the stocking efforts makIng a noticeable difference in returns.
I have to be clear here about something that REALLY upsets me and most of the more dedicated Steelheaders I know......The catch and kill derby held every year that promotes killing the largest fish in the system! STUPID! This seems like a rediculous and extremely counter productive event. I understand the importance of fund raising but fully disagree with it being done in that particular manner. To put my money right were my mouth is I will commit to a membership (and likely convince several freinds and possibly a relative or two too join) as well as a $500 donation to the club from my own pocket as if this event can be successfully changed to a C&R derby or done away with all together.
IMO there are a lot of younger anglers out there with real concern for our fisheries and many of them are much more educated on the merits of C&R and selective harvest than the old boys who grew up with a kill em all mentality. I have no doubt there are some younger anglers around that would be a great addition to the club if they could be convinced of the benefits.
Personally, I think advertising for club membership, especially on a river as fragile and vulnerable as the Bayfield is best done by word of mouth and possibly with signage on the river. Internet attention can both help and seriously harm a fishery. I personally will not fish with anyone naive enough to think posting river reports hasn't or won't have a negative impact on the resource, especially on this particular watershed.
I wish you and the club all the best in your efforts to maintain the fishery on that river I'm just not convinced I can become involved with the clubs current operations.
Josh
I have heard rumors of how the average of 60000 are distributed. Could you confirm what percentage are put into the Bayfield and how many go elsewhere? I was happy to hear a couple years ago that those fingerlings are being kept a little longer in the hatchery hopefully improving survival rates but I still have my doubts as to the stocking efforts makIng a noticeable difference in returns.
I have to be clear here about something that REALLY upsets me and most of the more dedicated Steelheaders I know......The catch and kill derby held every year that promotes killing the largest fish in the system! STUPID! This seems like a rediculous and extremely counter productive event. I understand the importance of fund raising but fully disagree with it being done in that particular manner. To put my money right were my mouth is I will commit to a membership (and likely convince several freinds and possibly a relative or two too join) as well as a $500 donation to the club from my own pocket as if this event can be successfully changed to a C&R derby or done away with all together.
IMO there are a lot of younger anglers out there with real concern for our fisheries and many of them are much more educated on the merits of C&R and selective harvest than the old boys who grew up with a kill em all mentality. I have no doubt there are some younger anglers around that would be a great addition to the club if they could be convinced of the benefits.
Personally, I think advertising for club membership, especially on a river as fragile and vulnerable as the Bayfield is best done by word of mouth and possibly with signage on the river. Internet attention can both help and seriously harm a fishery. I personally will not fish with anyone naive enough to think posting river reports hasn't or won't have a negative impact on the resource, especially on this particular watershed.
I wish you and the club all the best in your efforts to maintain the fishery on that river I'm just not convinced I can become involved with the clubs current operations.
Josh
Fish Bones
Well-Known Member
Well said Josh.....
canvasbacksca
Well-Known Member
According to this, the Bayfield River has a "healthy" run of steelhead in spring and fall:
http://www.flyfishontario.ca/ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/southern-ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/fly-fishing-the-bayfield-river-access-points.html
That certainly suggests that the club's tournament isn't causing any problems. And it doesn't take many of those 60,000 fingerlings to survive to compensate for the fish killed.
http://www.flyfishontario.ca/ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/southern-ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/fly-fishing-the-bayfield-river-access-points.html
That certainly suggests that the club's tournament isn't causing any problems. And it doesn't take many of those 60,000 fingerlings to survive to compensate for the fish killed.
Lol! Canvasback, that online magazine is written by a couple of average fly guys that likely spend a few days a year visiting that river. They're online magazine is a joke IMO and several streams could really do without the spot burning present on that site. I find it funny that you will never see any specifics on their favorite Saugeen tributary (the Beatty) but they will proudly serve up access points and hints on other anglers favourite tribs.....Can you tell I'm not a fan of that site! Lol!
Now, I'm not a biologist myself but have spent the past 20 or so years educating myself on and chasing Steelhead. ALOT of that time, many hundreds of days in fact, have been spent on my home river, The Bayfield. I am more than a little familiar with it.......
Yes, the Steelhead returns have been healthy province wide due to couple VERY healthy year classes. In fact, the fantastic 2009 class made up the majority of last years retuning fish in the Bayfield. Unfortunatley the past 2 summers, having had below normal precipatation and above normal temps means juvenille survival was likely VERY low. The 2010 year class seemed almost non existent last fall on the lower Lake Huron tribs and this past summer, being the hottest and driest in recent history will no doubt lead to another year of dismal survival rates.
The Bayfield river in particular, having minimal sutiable spawning and nursery waters in even the best of years will no doubt see a HUGE population decrease over the next few years as the remaining numbers of steelhead adults are harvested and succumb to natural mortality. Despite what some may think, small rivers such as the Bayfield only recieve runs of a Steelhead totalling a few thousand at most during an average year. Given that a maximum harvest rate of about 15% (thats 375-450 steelhead in years with 2500-3000 returning fish) per annum is generally accepted as the max to maintain a population and repeat spawning being another particularly important factor each each and every Adult becomes that much more important following succesive years of low reproductive success.
Basically, if the derby falls on a weekend with prime conditions 1/2 or more of the maximum sustainable harvest number could concievalby be taken from the river in just a weekend! That scares the SH!T out of me! With the drastic increase in traffic I've noted over the past couple years the run #'s will likely drop very quickly and to very low levels over the next few years, particulary if the next summer or two are anything like the one we've had this year.
Please note that not all of those 60000 fingerlings go into the Bayfield. I would be very cautious in assuming success of these stockers considering the current stocking sites. Without a clipping study it's all speculation really but I am under the assumption a large majority of the returing fish in the Bayfield are wild born at the moment.
Josh
Now, I'm not a biologist myself but have spent the past 20 or so years educating myself on and chasing Steelhead. ALOT of that time, many hundreds of days in fact, have been spent on my home river, The Bayfield. I am more than a little familiar with it.......
Yes, the Steelhead returns have been healthy province wide due to couple VERY healthy year classes. In fact, the fantastic 2009 class made up the majority of last years retuning fish in the Bayfield. Unfortunatley the past 2 summers, having had below normal precipatation and above normal temps means juvenille survival was likely VERY low. The 2010 year class seemed almost non existent last fall on the lower Lake Huron tribs and this past summer, being the hottest and driest in recent history will no doubt lead to another year of dismal survival rates.
The Bayfield river in particular, having minimal sutiable spawning and nursery waters in even the best of years will no doubt see a HUGE population decrease over the next few years as the remaining numbers of steelhead adults are harvested and succumb to natural mortality. Despite what some may think, small rivers such as the Bayfield only recieve runs of a Steelhead totalling a few thousand at most during an average year. Given that a maximum harvest rate of about 15% (thats 375-450 steelhead in years with 2500-3000 returning fish) per annum is generally accepted as the max to maintain a population and repeat spawning being another particularly important factor each each and every Adult becomes that much more important following succesive years of low reproductive success.
Basically, if the derby falls on a weekend with prime conditions 1/2 or more of the maximum sustainable harvest number could concievalby be taken from the river in just a weekend! That scares the SH!T out of me! With the drastic increase in traffic I've noted over the past couple years the run #'s will likely drop very quickly and to very low levels over the next few years, particulary if the next summer or two are anything like the one we've had this year.
Please note that not all of those 60000 fingerlings go into the Bayfield. I would be very cautious in assuming success of these stockers considering the current stocking sites. Without a clipping study it's all speculation really but I am under the assumption a large majority of the returing fish in the Bayfield are wild born at the moment.
Josh
canvasbacksca
Well-Known Member
You've made some good points, Josh, although from what I've read, steelhead can sustain harvest rates above 15%. Your passion for the steelhead fishery in the Bayfield is obvious, so I find it somewhat remarkable that, instead of standing on the bank and throwing stones, you've not joined the Bayfield Anglers Club and tried to fix the problems that you see.
You join by showing up on the last sat of march at the rod and gun in clinton,just like I said. We don t bother with other meeting cause 90% OF most of the members are fairly old and dont
like change on how things are done.
{the guy that owns the hatchery is 93 and an active member]Anyone from London is welcome but on collection day isnt usually called cause they don t know that is til the morning ofcollection by the MNR[I ve been a member for 25 yrs and called once] We usually get rehab work instead if decided at the meeting. memberships are $10 which pays for the licence to raise fry. We are a very small club but don t come with big ideas of change [I learned first hand real quick]
like change on how things are done.
{the guy that owns the hatchery is 93 and an active member]Anyone from London is welcome but on collection day isnt usually called cause they don t know that is til the morning ofcollection by the MNR[I ve been a member for 25 yrs and called once] We usually get rehab work instead if decided at the meeting. memberships are $10 which pays for the licence to raise fry. We are a very small club but don t come with big ideas of change [I learned first hand real quick]
quote:
Originally posted by canvasbacksca
According to this, the Bayfield River has a "healthy" run of steelhead in spring and fall:
http://www.flyfishontario.ca/ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/southern-ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/fly-fishing-the-bayfield-river-access-points.html
That certainly suggests that the club's tournament isn't causing any problems. And it doesn't take many of those 60,000 fingerlings to survive to compensate for the fish killed.
Also take into consideration, Lake Ontario`s Atlantic Salmon restoration project. As an example, they have been stocking millions of fry and fingerlings over the years, and some of the creeks fail to have 10 fish return...
60,000 sounds like a lot, but with poor water conditions, you might be lucky to have just a handful survive. And as noted above, most of the 60,000 is not put in the Bay.
Originally posted by canvasbacksca
According to this, the Bayfield River has a "healthy" run of steelhead in spring and fall:
http://www.flyfishontario.ca/ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/southern-ontario-fly-fishing-rivers/fly-fishing-the-bayfield-river-access-points.html
That certainly suggests that the club's tournament isn't causing any problems. And it doesn't take many of those 60,000 fingerlings to survive to compensate for the fish killed.
Also take into consideration, Lake Ontario`s Atlantic Salmon restoration project. As an example, they have been stocking millions of fry and fingerlings over the years, and some of the creeks fail to have 10 fish return...
60,000 sounds like a lot, but with poor water conditions, you might be lucky to have just a handful survive. And as noted above, most of the 60,000 is not put in the Bay.
Wojo,
Once the marina there, on the north side, closes you can drive right down from the top of the hill and park around the basin. I have fished the mouth from the cement pier and from the rocks. Stupid shallow now but hopefully better soon.The cement pier is closed off once the winter weather hits because of waves and ice but late fall an dlate spring its not bad.
Watch your footing!
Cheers.
gdawg.
Once the marina there, on the north side, closes you can drive right down from the top of the hill and park around the basin. I have fished the mouth from the cement pier and from the rocks. Stupid shallow now but hopefully better soon.The cement pier is closed off once the winter weather hits because of waves and ice but late fall an dlate spring its not bad.
Watch your footing!
Cheers.
gdawg.
quote:
Originally posted by gdawg
Wojo,
Once the marina there, on the north side, closes you can drive right down from the top of the hill and park around the basin. I have fished the mouth from the cement pier and from the rocks. Stupid shallow now but hopefully better soon.The cement pier is closed off once the winter weather hits because of waves and ice but late fall an dlate spring its not bad.
Watch your footing!
Cheers.
gdawg.
Thx, gdawg, I always liked the north side as it was easier to land a fish. I hope we get some significant rain, I was in Clinton last week and there was no flowing water on the Bayfield river only a few standing dead pools of water. Thanks again.
Wojo
Originally posted by gdawg
Wojo,
Once the marina there, on the north side, closes you can drive right down from the top of the hill and park around the basin. I have fished the mouth from the cement pier and from the rocks. Stupid shallow now but hopefully better soon.The cement pier is closed off once the winter weather hits because of waves and ice but late fall an dlate spring its not bad.
Watch your footing!
Cheers.
gdawg.
Thx, gdawg, I always liked the north side as it was easier to land a fish. I hope we get some significant rain, I was in Clinton last week and there was no flowing water on the Bayfield river only a few standing dead pools of water. Thanks again.
Wojo
yellowfever
Active Member
If there is minimal spawning habitant and nursery capacity on the stream I would think that later spawning fish just fan up the eggs of the early spawning fish so that a harvest of adult fish would not matter much. Like you say, there is minimal reproductive potential. That is what a Norfok biologist told me 25 years ago; make sense?
I keep getting the same theme here, it's ok if I fish hundreds of days a year and catch fish every day and I have more right to do that than a weekend guy that fishes the spot twice a year. (even though we all bought a licence) "COME ON MAN" you make no sense.
It's like bow hunters that want "bow only" or fly fishermen that want "artificial or fly fishing only" You "All for me Peckerheads" kill me, you really do. Think about it.
I keep getting the same theme here, it's ok if I fish hundreds of days a year and catch fish every day and I have more right to do that than a weekend guy that fishes the spot twice a year. (even though we all bought a licence) "COME ON MAN" you make no sense.
It's like bow hunters that want "bow only" or fly fishermen that want "artificial or fly fishing only" You "All for me Peckerheads" kill me, you really do. Think about it.
quote:
Originally posted by yellowfever
If there is minimal spawning habitant and nursery capacity on the stream I would think that later spawning fish just fan up the eggs of the early spawning fish so that a harvest of adult fish would not matter much. Like you say, there is minimal reproductive potential. That is what a Norfok biologist told me 25 years ago; make sense?
I keep getting the same theme here, it's ok if I fish hundreds of days a year and catch fish every day and I have more right to do that than a weekend guy that fishes the spot twice a year. (even though we all bought a licence) "COME ON MAN" you make no sense.
It's like bow hunters that want "bow only" or fly fishermen that want "artificial or fly fishing only" You "All for me Peckerheads" kill me, you really do. Think about it.
Would have replied earlier to this but I've been on vacation......
Yellowfever, Steelhead can go through the act of spawning anywhere in a stream. Unfortunatley not all will find their way to the best water every time they spawn. In some years only small sections of feeder streams will support juvenille Steelies. In others years even large sections of main rivers may be acceptable to support the young fish. As mentioned earlier, the main contributing factors are temperature and precipitation. Also the more fish that return to a river the better the chances some will find these higher quality areas and hopefully fill the stream to it's carrying capacity. Stating that the harvest of an Adult fish that can potentially spawn many times doesn't matter is completley insane! It has an immediate impact on the current population and a compounding impact due to potential repeat spawns being taken away. Also take into consideration that these fish may be caught several times over a span of up to 8 months or more that they can spend in a river. There is a real sporting value of a fish that can be caught and released by several anglers. Yes, in years when populations #'s are up some harvest is acceptable. However, when a population sees several consecutive poor year classes harvesting a healthy fish that could possibly make several more spawning runs can definetly have a negative impact.
It's generally the guys that are only out occasionally who don't realize the harm that can be caused by overharvest and don't think twice about killing every fish they catch. The internet contributes to sending more of these anglers closer to peak times multiply the potential for overharvest. I may land hundreds of fish a year but rarely keep any unless they are injured or I believe the impact will be negligable. What I try to do is help those anglers that are not as serious about the sport understand the life cycle and factors contributing to population variations so that they can hopefully make an informed decision on fish harvest.
Just to be clear again, I am in NO WAY trying to keep anglers off the river. I just hate seeing the advertising of spots and run #'s online and think there is great potential for damage to be done by naming rivers and posting specifics.
Josh
Originally posted by yellowfever
If there is minimal spawning habitant and nursery capacity on the stream I would think that later spawning fish just fan up the eggs of the early spawning fish so that a harvest of adult fish would not matter much. Like you say, there is minimal reproductive potential. That is what a Norfok biologist told me 25 years ago; make sense?
I keep getting the same theme here, it's ok if I fish hundreds of days a year and catch fish every day and I have more right to do that than a weekend guy that fishes the spot twice a year. (even though we all bought a licence) "COME ON MAN" you make no sense.
It's like bow hunters that want "bow only" or fly fishermen that want "artificial or fly fishing only" You "All for me Peckerheads" kill me, you really do. Think about it.
Would have replied earlier to this but I've been on vacation......
Yellowfever, Steelhead can go through the act of spawning anywhere in a stream. Unfortunatley not all will find their way to the best water every time they spawn. In some years only small sections of feeder streams will support juvenille Steelies. In others years even large sections of main rivers may be acceptable to support the young fish. As mentioned earlier, the main contributing factors are temperature and precipitation. Also the more fish that return to a river the better the chances some will find these higher quality areas and hopefully fill the stream to it's carrying capacity. Stating that the harvest of an Adult fish that can potentially spawn many times doesn't matter is completley insane! It has an immediate impact on the current population and a compounding impact due to potential repeat spawns being taken away. Also take into consideration that these fish may be caught several times over a span of up to 8 months or more that they can spend in a river. There is a real sporting value of a fish that can be caught and released by several anglers. Yes, in years when populations #'s are up some harvest is acceptable. However, when a population sees several consecutive poor year classes harvesting a healthy fish that could possibly make several more spawning runs can definetly have a negative impact.
It's generally the guys that are only out occasionally who don't realize the harm that can be caused by overharvest and don't think twice about killing every fish they catch. The internet contributes to sending more of these anglers closer to peak times multiply the potential for overharvest. I may land hundreds of fish a year but rarely keep any unless they are injured or I believe the impact will be negligable. What I try to do is help those anglers that are not as serious about the sport understand the life cycle and factors contributing to population variations so that they can hopefully make an informed decision on fish harvest.
Just to be clear again, I am in NO WAY trying to keep anglers off the river. I just hate seeing the advertising of spots and run #'s online and think there is great potential for damage to be done by naming rivers and posting specifics.
Josh