commercial crookery

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Josh Roelofsen

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http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/2016...-harvested-from-wrong-zones-with-illegal-nets

Looks like the fines only added up to what he made on the illegal catches! I'm boggled as to how this is even considered a deterrent! And being caught with undersize nets should result in an instant withdrawal of your fishing licences IMO.

Josh
 
I see this thread going sideways really quick, But I couldn't agree more with you Josh. Charged multiple times on minor offences and now this... I'm not jumping on the bash all commercial fisherman band wagon but this dude should have all his boats seized and his license revoked for life. He's just playing the system and the fines don't out weight the risk of being caught. He should have his name splattered on every social media fishing site, grocery store and any other means where his fish may have been sold. The guy who clubbed a musky comes to mind for this person. No offense to the reputable guys out there on the tugs playing by the rules! I have the same opinion for sport guys who are out there.
 
Yank the quota ..repeat offender and knowingly committing offenses READ stealing,poaching...dispicable
 
Same goes for sport fisherman;)....a mistake is a mistake but blatant disregard for the rules and attempts to skirt the laws deserve SEVERE punishment.

Josh
 
It seems to happen year after year where commercial guys take advantage of the light fines l, pretty unfortunate.
 
So lets get the math right... He was fined a total of 18K +2K = 20K. The income from the to licences were 20.6K+1K = 21.6K. So the net profit from the fine 1.6K. Seems the Captain made a profit of still $1600 after all was said and done. Now you go to the sports fisherman. Gets caught... Looses rods/license for a period of time/possible boat/ and any other fishing type equipment including vehicle pulling boat Plus a fine. Seems to me that if I go out under a commercial fishing license i can still fish and make a profit even if I get caught...no deterrent just a slap on the wrist...maybe not even that.
 
like the other quote said ...look these gill netters are breaking the laws all the time...most of the gill netters are all a bunch of liars and crooks...the government lets them get away with it for all the money they make off the commercial erie fishery...alot of times the MNR turn a blind eye...so I have learned to except it that they own the fish in the lake...every season...and the waste is absoulutly terrible...dumping dead fish floating out in the lake...

what it really comes down to is the gill netter is going to do everything it takes to get there fish
...read the specifics...always the same ol thing with usin undersized nets..

you wonder why they continue to break the laws...it all effects the gill netters bottom line
there tremendous costs gill netting days out on the water...make them break the laws
diesel fuel, gill nets, tugs and equipment and maitenance, labour costs, harbour and licence fees, paying for fines, etc etc ..its big business..
 
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The fine sure isn't high enough if he can still make money doing something illegal. Plus he has cheated the laws before I would have yanked his liscence for good as a deterrent to others.
 
A comercial guy that is a crook can really impact the fishery, should have lost his right to fish comercially forever. But, this story brings up a good point, who monitors whether his catch came from the zone it was supposed to be from? Ministry tells me they do not have the money to do their job properly. No wonder there are tough times on Erie.
 
again the provincial and federal government makes tons and tons of money off this fishery....they would never ever loose there licence to fish...or until they are forced to be bought out...until this happens I was told the commercial licensing will last to eternity...just recently there were a few gillnetters that retired...well those quotos and that licencing were picked up by others that were grandfathered in and the other gillnetters picked up the slack with increased quotos...and yep just to keep the money rollin in...thats the reality folks...

yes crooks.. the bigger the fine...the more the gillnetters will take in fish to pay for it....lol

I know a few of you guys feel bitter about it...well you have every right to be...sadly I have accepted the fact that the fish are owned by the government and the gillnetters that do the dirty work cleaning out the lake...
 
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[QUOTE="I know a few of you guys feel bitter about it...well you have every right to be...sadly I have excepted the fact that the fish are owned by the government and the gillnetters that do the dirty work cleaning out the lake...[/QUOTE]

I'm not usually one to correct spelling or English, but I believe you meant "accepted"
Using the word excepted in the above context would imply you actually believe the opposite of what you intended. (I think, don't let me put words in your mouth) Just looking to clarify.

I am quite happy that this fisherman got fined. I love that he was taken to court and convicted. Justice served. As for the profits being made regardless of the fines, I'm not sure that's the case. Simple math says 21.6k vs 20k in sales...net 1.6k... I think a few costs are omitted here, fuel, dockage, repairs, labour to name a few.
Repeat offender, I completely agree, take his boat, his license etc. Just like if any of us caught a fish over our limit or took a bird out of season. Some work needs to be done to toughen our consequences.
 
The fines added up to what he caught so his hired guys were paid from his pocket.Strip him of his licenses and we have his crew on welfare well that's fair to them.Mick they are far from all being crooks as you call them.And yes quotas can be bought up when they become available.I know many a man that has fished all his life in the commercial industry and they are no more a crook than the guy that goes out in his boat 4 or 5 times a week and takes home a limit.Bad apples in every bag.Doesn't mean they should all be labeled crooks.
 
Rex said:
I'm not sure that's the case. Simple math says 21.6k vs 20k in sales...net 1.6k... I think a few costs are omitted here, fuel, dockage, repairs, labour to name a few.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I intentionally left out the dockage, fuel, labour, maintenance etc. as they would have these costs incurred if they went and got the catch legally. This captain went out without regards to following the rules and proceeded to rape the lake of the catch and went over his allotment both in quantity and actual size of gill net. His dockage fees never changed weather he went out or not. My slip fees never change if I park the boat or not. Sorry his net profit is still 1.6K where the fine should be what his catch that he made plus the actual fine. In this case he over fished by 21.6K he forfeits his catch - like the sportsman - then he get fined on top 20K. total fine 41.6K. that's a deterrent. The other way it is a cost of doing business.
 
Hey Rex...thankyou Rex for bringing to my attention my incorrect word...I went forward and corrected the word excepted to accepted...lol

yes crooks... are the ones that I was referring to that continue to get caught with undersized nets...and there is more then one...

ask yourself this question why do you thing the gillnetters are closely monitored?

I know a few that have worked first hand in the industry...and they have had alot to say...smugglin cocaine ring a bell?...that was disgusting..

Its unfortunate that some of you guys don't quit understand how the erie gillnetting fishery works...the big picture scenario?

When i make a quote it is to my knowledge these are the facts...and it is my opinion with my conclusion...

I have taken all kinds of time and years of studying the Lake Erie fishery...I find the American erie sports fishermen very good reading, and its big business on the other side of the lake. I will tell you one thing they are not happy with the north shore gillnetters and they have lots to say about it...
 
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The last few summers i spent a lot of time sport fishing along side commercial fishermen
in the long point bay area. My fishing was interrupted more than once by the authorities
requesting all the proper paper work. You would think it would be more prudent to allocate
the time and money monitoring the people who make a bigger impact on our lakes resources.
I have never seen anyone inspecting a commercial fishing boat or their nets .
Is it true that the ministry can board a private sport fishing boat but cannot board a commercial
fishing boat ??
 
BTick said:
The fines added up to what he caught so his hired guys were paid from his pocket.Strip him of his licenses and we have his crew on welfare well that's fair to them.Mick they are far from all being crooks as you call them.And yes quotas can be bought up when they become available.I know many a man that has fished all his life in the commercial industry and they are no more a crook than the guy that goes out in his boat 4 or 5 times a week and takes home a limit.Bad apples in every bag.Doesn't mean they should all be labeled crooks.
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Fines should have been much more, we'll never know how often this boat and crew got away with poaching\stealing in the past? License and quota should have been taken away for good. Tug should have been seized and sold and that monies put back into Erie fishery.
Crew should also be fined and never allowed to work in the fishing industry again. They took part in a crime, not like they were blindfolded and the captain snuck in the undersized nets, if they were bank robber's, the whole crew is guilty, not just the leader. They took part in a crime.
As for putting the crew on the welfare line, no, no, they don't get that either, they forfeit that opportunity for loosing their employment for taking part in a crime.
 
hey yes I agree can't miss...but when the crown attorney and the defense attorney talks to the judge in his chambers..the crown will say fine only..its the judge that hands down the amount of the fine...thats the way it works...now if they got caught smugglin illegal drugs across the lake...the RCMP would be involved with serious criminal charges and defiantley look at harsh punishment like your talkin about...

I heard years ago about the cocaine comin across the lake into Port Stanley harbour on a fishing tug..thats all I heard...unfortunatley they never got caught..at one time there was all kinds of contraband smuggled across the lake...I wouldn't be suprised it is still goin on...with any type of large boat or vessel..remember erie is part of the shipping industry too so anything is possible...
 
squambo said:
The last few summers i spent a lot of time sport fishing along side commercial fishermen
in the long point bay area. My fishing was interrupted more than once by the authorities
requesting all the proper paper work. You would think it would be more prudent to allocate
the time and money monitoring the people who make a bigger impact on our lakes resources.
I have never seen anyone inspecting a commercial fishing boat or their nets .
Is it true that the ministry can board a private sport fishing boat but cannot board a commercial
fishing boat ??
Click to expand...

The Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) currently manages Ontario’s commercial fisheries under the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act. My understanding is they absolutely have the right to board any commercial fishing vessel.

Conservation officers are empowered to:
  • stop and/or inspect a vehicle, boat or aircraft
  • inspect firearms, ammunition, fish or game
  • inspect buildings or other places
  • search with a warrant, and in circumstances requiring immediate action, without one
  • seize items related to an offence
  • ask questions relevant to the inspection
  • arrest anyone who has committed, is committing or is about to commit an offence under many of the acts they are authorized to enforce
 
the MNR go right to the fish camps up north and walk right into your cottage and cabin looking in the fridge for your fish...they also use to have road blocks on number 11 and 69 hwy south bound...pulling everyone over that has a boat...checking for fish and licences....same thing during the moose hunt...road blocks pulling all the hunters over..MNR and OPP checkin licences, firearms, quads for ownership and insurance and your moose...

so yes they are checking to make sure fishermen and hunters are complying with the laws...I don't have a problem with the road blocks...but I feel they should knock on the cabin door first instead walking right in and searching,,,

another episode a couple years ago was with the quebec game wardens searching our entire camp for bear gallbladders...they were lookin every where..including using mirrors to search underneath our trucks...the camp was a small outfit with mostly american bear hunters...so don't break the laws...if you get caught your in trouble...

oh ya another time i was out duck huntin a few local marshes and ponds on the way out to visit my GFs family..We stopped and I checked out a couple spots but didn't shoot any ducks...well the MNR pulled us over after the fact...I told the warden yes i stopped and did some duck hunting and told him i had no ducks...well he searched my entire truck including asking to open up my girl friends purse for a dead duck...lol...not even a feather folks...lol..
yes i was fully licenced and permission granted with no laws broken...
 
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