Who does this

I was under the understanding that where the is a possession limit you must be able to identify them regardless of where they are stored or transported. Last time I trusted a woman I ended up with another son and a hangover. I'm not complaining though. 2019 fishing regulations page 14 point 3 states transport or storage. I'd really like to know for sure though. Anyone else want to chime in on this one?
 
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Under the Fisheries Act, the Ontario Fishery Regulations, Section 39 says the following:

(1) Unless the fish is being prepared for immediate consumption, no person shall skin, cut or pack any fish caught by sport fishing in such a manner that the species cannot easily be identified or the number cannot easily be counted

(2) No person shall possess a fish that is skinned, cut or packed in contravention of subsection (1).

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2007-237/page-4.html#h-735779

I'm no lawyer and don't pretend to be, but the above seems to be the source from which our annual "regulations summary" is derived..? This would definitely conflict with the MNR response given above.
 
Also relevant is the legal disclaimer for the Regulations Summary:

(https://www.ontario.ca/document/ontario-fishing-regulations-summary)

This summary is meant as a convenient reference only, and is neither a legal document nor a complete collection of the current laws. For details on the current rules, see the federal Fisheries Act, Aquatic Invasive Species Regulations, Ontario Fishery Regulations and Variation Orders, and Species at Risk Act, as well as the provincial Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act and regulations, Invasive Species Act, and Endangered Species Act. The maps in this summary are intended as a guide only, with more detailed maps of Zone boundaries available at ontario.ca/fishing or local MNRF offices.

*bolded part is the same site I linked to in my previous post.

So based on all of this I would conclude that the MNR response is incorrect - the rules for identification and counting do apply to any sport-caught fish in your possession unless they are being prepared for immediate consumption. Milk cartons are a no-go, legally.

The wording in the regs summary should be much clearer - listing 'tips' for packaging fish under the 'transporting fish' section is obviously misleading many folks (including Ms. Waite from MNR).
 
Ah I don't care anyway when was the last time a CO knocked on your door and asked to have a look in your freezer. ;)
 
Conservation officers are empowered to:
  • stop and/or inspect a vehicle, boat or aircraft
  • inspect firearms, ammunition, fish or game
  • inspect buildings or other places
  • search with a warrant, and in circumstances requiring immediate action, without one
  • seize items related to an offence
  • ask questions relevant to the inspection
  • arrest anyone who has committed, is committing or is about to commit an offence under many of the acts they are authorized to enforce
 
Enjoy the skin on method,
Just be sure to consume every fillet you freeze and don't through out if you don't like the taste a month or 2 out.
Pretty much saying to keep hide on deer meat and freezing. Jeez
i 'll have mine without.
 
Crestliner16 said:
Also relevant is the legal disclaimer for the Regulations Summary:

(https://www.ontario.ca/document/ontario-fishing-regulations-summary)

This summary is meant as a convenient reference only, and is neither a legal document nor a complete collection of the current laws. For details on the current rules, see the federal Fisheries Act, Aquatic Invasive Species Regulations, Ontario Fishery Regulations and Variation Orders, and Species at Risk Act, as well as the provincial Fish and Wildlife Conservation Act and regulations, Invasive Species Act, and Endangered Species Act. The maps in this summary are intended as a guide only, with more detailed maps of Zone boundaries available at ontario.ca/fishing or local MNRF offices.

*bolded part is the same site I linked to in my previous post.

So based on all of this I would conclude that the MNR response is incorrect - the rules for identification and counting do apply to any sport-caught fish in your possession unless they are being prepared for immediate consumption. Milk cartons are a no-go, legally.

The wording in the regs summary should be much clearer - listing 'tips' for packaging fish under the 'transporting fish' section is obviously misleading many folks (including Ms. Waite from MNR).
Click to expand...
Note; there hasn't been a change to regs on this, why all of a sudden is there an issue with fish ? travel skin on, home skin off. it will never change, and the MNR lady is 100% correct, that is, unless you work for MNR too.
 
Crestliner16 said:
Under the Fisheries Act, the Ontario Fishery Regulations, Section 39 says the following:

(1) Unless the fish is being prepared for immediate consumption, no person shall skin, cut or pack any fish caught by sport fishing in such a manner that the species cannot easily be identified or the number cannot easily be counted

(2) No person shall possess a fish that is skinned, cut or packed in contravention of subsection (1).

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2007-237/page-4.html#h-735779

I'm no lawyer and don't pretend to be, but the above seems to be the source from which our annual "regulations summary" is derived..? This would definitely conflict with the MNR response given above.
Click to expand...

what if you clean, and then smoke, and then freeze.....? It’s not immediate consumption? But good luck identifying it...
 
Wave Runner said:
Conservation officers are empowered to:
  • stop and/or inspect a vehicle, boat or aircraft
  • inspect firearms, ammunition, fish or game
  • inspect buildings or other places
  • search with a warrant, and in circumstances requiring immediate action, without one
  • seize items related to an offence
  • ask questions relevant to the inspection
  • arrest anyone who has committed, is committing or is about to commit an offence under many of the acts they are authorized to enforce
Click to expand...
You do realize your quoting from the summary and not the document that it comes from? That Act
specifically prohibits searches with out warrants for dwellings.

The Summary has a disclaimer about legality but the Act doesn't.
 
SouthernOntariosportsman said:
Note; there hasn't been a change to regs on this, why all of a sudden is there an issue with fish ? travel skin on, home skin off. it will never change, and the MNR lady is 100% correct, that is, unless you work for MNR too.
Click to expand...

Nothing has changed in the regs; the interpretation by that MNR employee is just incorrect. Many folks have the same interpretation and they are also incorrect. :D

It's very clear in Sec. 39 of the Ontario Fishery Regulations (quoted above) that the storage rules apply unless the fish is being prepared for immediate consumption - the same would apply whether at home, at the cabin, or travelling. Still, the confusion is understandable IMO as the regulations summary is unclear, and the summary is what 99.9% of people rely on for information, myself included.

rastam4n said:
what if you clean, and then smoke, and then freeze.....? It’s not immediate consumption? But good luck identifying it...
Click to expand...

Don't ask don't tell? :censored: same for canning fish, fish chowder, a bag of cheeks or wings, carcasses for stock. None would be easy to count and/or identify?

Maybe just practise the phrase "that's tilapia, sir" lol
 
Wave Runner said:
Conservation officers are empowered to:
  • stop and/or inspect a vehicle, boat or aircraft
  • inspect firearms, ammunition, fish or game
  • inspect buildings or other places
  • search with a warrant, and in circumstances requiring immediate action, without one
  • seize items related to an offence
  • ask questions relevant to the inspection
  • arrest anyone who has committed, is committing or is about to commit an offence under many of the acts they are authorized to enforce
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure it matters too much but this summary from the regs is a bit misleading by omission of some key details (maybe intentionally so). Just for clarity, and without trying to be confrontational about it, the details regarding the search powers of CO's can be found in the Fish and Wildlife Conservation act section 90. Subsections (3) & (4). Here is a snippet from the Act which indicates that they need a warrant to search to a dwelling in most cases:

1587652869179.png
 
Thanks for that information @G.Mech... seems like almost everything in the printed regulations we get to go by is not only confusing but in some cases misleading. Nothing new as I think government seems to enjoy confusing us on any matter just to distract us from what's going on in other places.
 
So same rules for CO's and vampires - can only enter your dwelling with permission. :D

@SouthernOntariosportsman it's not pointless at all, clearly this is a poorly understood area of the regs. The likelihood of being 'busted' for skinless fillets in your freezer is nearly zero, but that doesn't make it legal...?
Storing fish fillets in a way that is convenient, improves food quality, and reduces the likelihood of spoilage/waste is a pretty benign bit of civil disobedience if you ask me, but it's still worthwhile to know the rules. Individuals can govern themselves accordingly.
 
@Crestliner16... Okay concerning this deal with regulation under the Fisheries Act, the Ontario Fishery Regulations, Section 39 regarding whether it applies to fish cleaned and packaged at home I did more contact with the MNRF for clarification. I emailed the lady from the MNR quoting the regulation from section 39 and told her some on the forum say the answer you gave me is simply wrong so who can I contact because all the offices are closed so I can find out absolutely who is right so all of us know exactly in plain English what the regulation states. She emailed me back for my phone number and said she will get one of her veteran conservation officers to call me back who can answer my question to my satisfaction exactly what the regulation actually means. Even though very busy working from his home because of the Covid-19 he took time call me about my inquiry and this is what he told me. Any fish you take home and clean at your residence does not have to be packaged a certain way for identification or a patch of skin left on it to go in your freezer as long as it remains at your residence. That regulation only applies to travelling, period not applicable to your residence. So for instance if you want to take some the fish you clean at home say to a friend's home then the packaging rules would apply. But to put in your own freezer at home you can package any way you choose in fact he said you can put your whole limit of 50 perch in one single bag or bucket if you want there's nothing in the law that prevents doing that. The immediate consumption only applies to other places other than your residence. So yes the lady that doesn't know what she's talking about was absolutely right. ;) ?
 
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Oh Yeah to mention also I feel better I wasn't doing something unintentionally illegal all these years. I have never left skin on or packaged for identification in my 60+ years of fishing except when bringing home cleaned fish from the north. :D
 
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