Off Topic AC Shiner Lures (Solid Balsa vs Solid Cedar)

[Wave Runner]

Has anyone used the solid cedar AC Shiners? I have used the solid balsa AC (on the left) for over 40 years but never realized until today they have this solid cedar (on the right). Any feedback from those who have used them before?

 

[Reel-ist]

Wave Runner:

I have no experience with AC Shiners in either wood. I have been considering both those woods though for another fishing project, collapsible double planer boards, and so have been doing a little preliminary research into cedar vs balsa. It might shed a bit of light on the question.

Balsa is almost 3 times less dense than cedar, making it incredibly buoyant. Such buoyancy, especially in a lure with a small body size would still float with the metal hardware that would be attached to the body. This extreme lightness also comes with a loss in strength and durability though.

Balsa is not nearly as resinous a wood as cedar. As a result, it accepts paint or other finishes much more readily than cedar. This would make the finishing process for the lure much less time consuming / expensive.

Balsa, being among the softest woods available, along with its less grainy structure, also makes it easy to carve, sand and shape with hand tools, whereas cedar, and other woods with a pronounced grain (character woods), often splinter during hand working due to the huge discrepancies between hardness in the grain and from heartwood to sapwood parts of a piece.

Though it sounds like balsa has many advantages over other woods, cedar, though also a soft wood, is better for any thing where a bit more strength is required. The “oiliness” also makes cedar a better choice for rot resistance and it tends to be easier to machine tool than balsa with less “tear out” especially for turning on a lathe, etc.

I would be curious to know if the balsa versions were more prevalent in the earlier history of the company when finishes were less advanced and hand-tooling was the preferred manufacturing method.

Sad that the art of hand-carved items is going the way of the do-do in the tackle industry the way it went in the manufacture of duck and goose decoys - let’s hope they don’t get as expensive to acquire.

 

[Wave Runner]

The AC Shiners website now says they are no longer taking orders. It also says that new products are coming so I wonder if they will be going the way of plastic? Sad but it sure looks like the end of an era for the lures we knew.

 

[Red Hering]

Has anyone used the solid cedar AC Shiners? I have used the solid balsa AC (on the left) for over 40 years but never realized until today they have this solid cedar (on the right). Any feedback from those who have used them before?

View attachment 81010 View attachment 81011

@Wave Runner on the back of one of my AC Shiner boxes that I had bought a couple of years ago, I read to see what the AC Shiner was made of. I was surprised to see that the AC Shiners were made out of solid cedar as well. News to me as well,such as yourself. Here is a photo of my AC Shiners that I presently own,which likely have some solid cedar and balsa wood AC Shiners mixed in there somewhere,but @Wave Runner ,how can you tell them apart? By the weight of the lure,or the different colours on the eye’s of the lure’s,with some eye’s painted white,yellow and even red,around the pupil of the AC Shiners eye’s. Would anyone else know? Thanks in advance.

 

[Red Hering]

The AC Shiners website now says they are no longer taking orders. It also says that new products are coming so I wonder if they will be going the way of plastic? Sad but it sure looks like the end of an era for the lures we knew.

Sad indeed @Wave Runner ,to perhaps see the end of an era in these fantastic AC Shiner’s!! It’s best to hang onto the ones that we have,or at least don’t use them for pike fishing,due to the fact that the pike is notorious for biting through fishing lines!! Bye,bye AC Shiner!! The AC Shiners,especially the ones that are still in their original boxes,could be worth something down the road,or even now,just like the Luhr Jensens Lyman lure’s,( last 3 photo’s),which were originally built out of wood as well,and not like the Lyman lure’s of today,made out of plastics!

 

[Duck Soup]

Like you, I've used the balsa wood version for over 40 years and seriously doubt that the cedar version would compare when used to target the same species of fish. The heavier body bait would probably be better for musky or pike that simply destroy the original.

 

[Reel-ist]

On a related lure material note, the much beloved big Bagley body bait type lures for pike and musky are now manufactured by another maker and are plastic and not the familiar balsa wood of old. The familiar size and colours have also been slightly modified. Some old stock balsa specimens may still be available if you look hard on the internet. I only became aware of this when I was out last year with Bigdaver and he had a big orange Bagley bait absolutely destroyed by a big musky. All he got back was the diving lip/attachment ring and a few inches of severed wire. He contacted Bagley about the way that the lure’s intended quarry dismantled it. The new parent company actually responded and sent him a couple of the new version in a similar colour to try and asked him for some feedback after giving them a try. In the meantime, Bigdaver was able to locate some “new” old stock from another source, in the same colour that his powerful friend had destroyed. On a subsequent outing we went back out again and he took the opportunity to fish the new and old versions side by side.

The result: The slightly larger and more intense orange-coloured balsa lure out-produced its plastic replacement by a margin of 3 to 1 (pike, not musky on this occasion). All this to say, that Duck Soup’s theory appears to have some merit. In Bigdaver‘s experience, with me watching in this particular instance, the update could not compete with the original.

Bigdaver did let the new manufacturer know of the results of his testing and I think they thanked him for reporting his findings. To my knowledge though, they haven’t started producing the original balsa product again. It was nice of them to respond and send him some free new product, but, alas it seems, once a new process and product is in place, there will be no going back, at least in the Bagley instance.

The moral: Enjoy your originals while they last fellas, be it Lymans, AC Shiners or Bagley balsa body baits. Maybe keep a few aside for posterity purposes, but enjoy using them until you can’t, I’d say.

P.S. Wave Runner: After looking at the photos all the respondents to your post put up, I checked out some of my older body baits that I inherited from my late father’s tackle collection and found out I have a few specimens that are in really good shape. I thought that they were Rapala lures but, a closer examination revealed otherwise. Thanks for posting, otherwise I would have lived on in ignorance.

 

[Toad]

The AC Shiners website now says they are no longer taking orders. It also says that new products are coming so I wonder if they will be going the way of plastic? Sad but it sure looks like the end of an era for the lures we knew.

Just went to look at my collection of Shiners. I have many and all seem to be balsa. Very sad to hear that this could be the end. Have been my go to for many years

 

[Wave Runner]

Sad indeed @Wave Runner ,to perhaps see the end of an era in these fantastic AC Shiner’s!! It’s best to hang onto the ones that we have,or at least don’t use them for pike fishing,due to the fact that the pike is notorious for biting through fishing lines!! Bye,bye AC Shiner!! The AC Shiners,especially the ones that are still in their original boxes,could be worth something down the road,or even now,just like the Luhr Jensens Lyman lure’s,( last 3 photo’s),which were originally built out of wood as well,and not like the Lyman lure’s of today,made out of plastics!

The only way I can see is that solid cedar has a flat face with a heftier body shape as shown in the photos at the start of this thread. Also I remember reading in the description the cedar is roughly twice the weight of the balsa, 1/4 oz. balsa 375 and 1/2 oz. for the 402 solid cedar. Exact details are no longer available on the site.

 

[Wave Runner]

Like you, I've used the balsa wood version for over 40 years and seriously doubt that the cedar version would compare when used to target the same species of fish. The heavier body bait would probably be better for musky or pike that simply destroy the original.

Along with my order of the regular solid balsa I added this solid cedar version in purple to try. It's the #402 which is 4" long. It is also shallow running and floats at rest just like the balsa, so I'll see how good it works.