Off Topic Boat Sinks

[Cannonball]

@scrimmy and to whoever else is that,I just found out recently through a friend,that I don’t need flares on a boat under 19 feet in length. My boat is 18 feet 4 inches in length,and I have been buying flares for my boat since I bought it back in 2007, ( every 4 year’s), then they expire. I thought about selling these flares that I had bought last year in June,2022,but I decided to keep them,because I figured that flares should attract someones attention,( I/you hope at least anyways ),while perhaps,( heaven forbid),in distress,maybe up to 15 miles or so offshore etc., or whatever else in case of emergency. I will likely still keep buying flares every 4 years,for just a piece of mind. In 3 years, I will just have to buy the cartridges,( it will be cheaper then ),for this model that I had bought last year. Be Safe to All,and See ya on the water!

As someone else said, the flares will give a location easily to find after making a Pan Pan call on channel 16 which immediately gets the attention of other boats.

 

[stomp]

I believe, if the law has not changed since I bought my first VHF radio in 1984 and took the Operators test, anyone can own a VHF radio. Only if you have a VHF Radio Operators Certificate can you actually send with that radio. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think the laws may have changed regarding the licensing of the station since 1984, but I think the ROC statement is correct @Cannonball . There is a good summary here . Notable is the exemption in US waters, so there *might* be a concern if on the US side.

 

[Octavius Brine]

One interesting point for anyone with a DSC radio but no ROC: there is no need to have a license to get your MMSI.

With an MMSI you can set up all the functionality for the DSC so that you can send a distress call with the push of a button (including your GPS coordinates).

You do need to link your GPS and VHF radio together by the NMEA 0183 to make it work, but this is a key safety feature that is dead simple for anyone to use.

 

[scrimmy]

I believe, if the law has not changed since I bought my first VHF radio in 1984 and took the Operators test, anyone can own a VHF radio. Only if you have a VHF Radio Operators Certificate can you actually send with that radio. Please correct me if I am wrong.

That is right my friend.

 

[scrimmy]

I was onboard with Capt. Fred that day we responded to the call for help. There is no doubt that radio saved lives. And even then only 3 boats responded to a life or death situation. One smart ass actually told them they should call the Coast Guard instead of offering assistance. While he was technically correct, by that time, it would have taken to send out the CG would have been too great, and boats in the vicinity would have had to assist. (as we did)

A few things that would have helped these people sooner, maybe this info will help the next person in trouble.
1. the moment they realized they were taking on water, they should have made a Pan, Pan call on Channel 16. At least then the CG would have been made aware of a possible emergency unfolding.
Instead, (as I understood what they said), when they realized they were taking on water, they headed toward shore... which was smart, but the Pan Pan call should have been made at the same time.
2. When they realized the water was overwhelming the vessel, they should have upgraded that call to a Mayday. At this point, the general coordinates of the vessel, how many people on board and description would already be known due to the early Pan, Pan call.
3. The person on channel 68 asking for help was calm, but he was unable to give his exact position, and honestly it almost seemed like a hoax. Making a Pan Pan and Mayday call would have given the situation an urgency and credibility, I think we hesitated a moment trying to figure out if the call was for real or not... good thing we decided it didn't matter quickly as the stern of the boat went down just after the 4th person was transferred off the sinking vessel
4. A flare would have made it easier to find the sinking vessel... if they were unable to give coordinates with a flare, we would have found them faster. We found them pretty quickly, but we spent a few minutes trying to spot them...
5. I do not recall seeing anyone wearing life jackets. 4 people on a sinking boat and no one bothered to put on a life jacket...

Why did the boat sink? Well, in my experience, there is only one thing in a stern drive boat that would cause a boat to sink that fast. Without hitting something causing a hull failure/puncture.

BELLOW FAILURE!!!

I think this is one of the most underrated dangers of stern drive boats, it is why I always buy boats with outboards, if the bellows fail it's like having a hole the size of a basket ball at the heaviest point of the boat ... underwater!
It is imperative to have these inspected regularly if you own a stern drive boat.

At the end of the day, everyone was safe, because they were able to ask for assistance from nearby vessels via their VHF radio. Cell phones would not have worked this time...
I estimate from the initial call to the moment the boat sank, maybe 20 minutes passed… It feels like 5 minutes.

Rastam4n. There are dangers in owning an outboard boat as well. I rescued a boater about 20 years ago while running a charter out of Port Stanley. The 2 guys and a child were close to 20 miles off shore and the boat had 2 150 hp Yamahas on the back. He gave a shout on channel 16 that his boat was going down fast. When I arrived at the position he gave me. the 3 of them were treading water but as it was late July they were not freezing. When I asked him what happened he said they were packing up and heading back to port. When he opened up the throttles his transom busted off sending both motors into the water. Moral of the story is you have to have your vessel inspected on a regular basis. All my past Charter boats were I/O's and I never had a bellows problem with any of them. That being said I inspected them on a regular basis and if they looked or felt suspicious to me I changed the bellows. If you are going to be a boater you have to either inspect your boat or have someone qualified to do it for you. Any boat can be a great source of joy or a nightmare depending on maintenance.

 

[Fishfarmer]

I have been the recipient of ignored requests for assistance twice in the last 4 years, once on lake Ontario after engine backfired and vapor locked, and last year on Erie with a plugged fuel line due to sealant.
I have assisted in the past and will in the future but the shit I seen and heard in both those instances left me hoping some people would get their just rewards
I have found there are a lot of "new" attitudes on the water these days

 

[FlyingViking]

I have been the recipient of ignored requests for assistance twice in the last 4 years, once on lake Ontario after engine backfired and vapor locked, and last year on Erie with a plugged fuel line due to sealant.
I have assisted in the past and will in the future but the shit I seen and heard in both those instances left me hoping some people would get their just rewards
I have found there are a lot of "new" attitudes on the water these days

That’s Lake Ontario….in my opinion, Lake Ontario is filled with a bunch of “”””””. The further east you go from fisherman’s pier, the more attitudes.

In my experience, the Lake Erie guys are life savers…. The lake O guys? Don’t count your bunnies for help except for the charter guys.

If in distress… Lake Erie is by FAR the safest. By FARRR.

One “guy” on this site passed us in my friends boat broken down but “I can’t turn, I have 6 rods in the water”. He’s a popular poster with his successes

 

[rcfire77]

Then RAT him out! Sins don’t deserve silence.

 

[FlyingViking]

He’s an infrequent poster…. Popular at Grimsby tackle. That’s all I’m saying. Im no rat. But after his shit, I have my friends at the bronte charter boats on call.

He wouldn’t even come to shore that eve… if his ass did (after our tow)…. He would have been whistling out of 2 sides of his mouth.

Stolatz

 

[rcfire77]

Calling out a guy for being a huge dick doesn’t make you a rat but I get it. I am a tad less lenient especially if I was left hanging out there! It would have been in his best interests to keep fishing out there til it started to ice up again!

 

[rastam4n]

I believe, if the law has not changed since I bought my first VHF radio in 1984 and took the Operators test, anyone can own a VHF radio. Only if you have a VHF Radio Operators Certificate can you actually send with that radio. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Close... the law is that you cannot turn it on without an ROC-M... which I thought was sort of funny so challenged my instructor, but they stood their ground.
Ya'll are
breakin the law, breakin the law,
breakin the law, breakin the law...

 

[scrimmy]

It really annoy's the hell out of me the amount of so called fisherman that ignore someone in distress. I was in that position last year out of Port Glasgow and had at least a dozen boats go by me with my arms flailing over my head. They also ignored my calls on the VHF. I finally had to place a call to the Coast Guard in Sarnia. Eventually a nice fisherman named Rick came to my aid and towed in the Legend for me. After running Charters for years and years I can't remember the number of boaters I towed in. The law states that you are required to give assistance to someone in distress unless the action will endanger yourself or your vessel.

2 days after I was towed in by Rick I went out and bought this kicker so I can help prevent this from happening again.

 

[Red Hering]

2 days after I was towed in by Rick I went out and bought this kicker so I can help prevent this from happening again.

A good investment @scrimmy and my kicker got me back into Port,while I was roughly 15 kilometres offshore on Lake Erie that day,when my main outboard motor broke down.

 

[rastam4n]

A good investment @scrimmy and my kicker got me back into Port,while I was roughly 15 kilometres offshore on Lake Erie that day,when my main outboard motor broke down.

good opportunity to troll into the shallow to see what's there!

 

[scrimmy]

The Bayliner was brought to shore.

 

[Porkpie]

Keep in mind folks that you are only obligated to assist as long as it doesn't put your own vessel or passengers in jeopardy. The offer of assistance can be simply coordinating rescue efforts if that's all your able to do. You are not obligated to "physically" assist another vessel if that would put your own vessel at risk. An example of jeopardy would be overloading your own boat in high seas. An example of being an @sshole would be not towing a guy because you had 6 rods down. I once had a giant cabin cruiser ask me to tow him off Simcoe due to engine failure, I was in a 14 foot tinner at the time perch fishing. I told him this would be unreasonable, however I offered to call a marina to arrange a tow and stand by with him until he was under tow. Of course he was able to do all of this himself and declined my offer, but I met my obligation to assist him. That said, if someone is sinking I'm going to try and help them. But if my kids are on board and there is a significant danger to them due to conditions I may choose to stand by and assist in other ways. Know the difference, and your own capabilities as well as those of your boat.

I believe, if the law has not changed since I bought my first VHF radio in 1984 and took the Operators test, anyone can own a VHF radio. Only if you have a VHF Radio Operators Certificate can you actually send with that radio. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You are correct, anyone can own one. A course is a good idea but not mandatory for ownership. As long as your not broadcasting on it, there is no issue. Who gives out fishing info over the radio anymore anyway. Thats what cell phones are for. That said, if your sinking then I guess you could always worry about getting charged after the fact. I sure wouldn't though.

 

[Porkpie]

Caseys Dream I have no problem with stores selling VHF radios to anyone. It is better to have one out on the Great Lakes than not have one as it could save someones life. They should just learn how to use one properly. Actually the law states that you need to have a license to operate the radio and I know many do not. There excuse is they do not transmit on it they just listen to it. Although it is a legal requirement to have a license I have never heard of anybody being charged for not having a license.

Me either, guys get very upset about the whole ROC thing. I'd rather dumb dumb use it in an emergency and get the help than worry about their certificate. Now, if they would use it for the intended purpose only that would be ideal. The stupid radio calls everyone could do without!

 

[Fishfarmer]

In my case I was told I should have bought gas and I was fine as I was in the Chanel at Burrell, if the situation were to be reversed today I would have a hard time not whipping out a hose of your choice to help sink that attitude
I do understand people's frustration with "new" boaters running out or leaving dock with ill prepared boats but that is not the normal and usually the last time for most
Still comes down to "treat others as you would want to be treated"

 

[Porkpie]

Some people are @ssholes. Unfortunate and unavoidable. The number of boats coming in and out of the channel at Burwell it astounds me someone wouldn’t give you a tug back to the dock. That’s BS.

 

[M_P]

I implore all to take the Canadian Power Squadron VHF radio course.

This year's spring project was to install a VHF in the Princecraft. Looking into the operator's course for my boys and I. Between the in-person and on-line options, there's really no excuse to not have it.