Private Property Question

[quinner01]

I have a question about private property, where can I look for an answer? I dont think the CO's would really have an idea, would it be the police then?

It stems from fishing the mouth of a creek, where I was in the water. I accessed the beach area publicly (dead end road and no one owned the strip of land leading to the beach, as well as getting landowner permission to get down to the beach area from the road) but then had to cross an area of the beach that was "private" (or so I am told by another land owner) to get to the mouth to fish. Is every inch of beach or sand on the shores of lake erie owned by someone, if its not a public beach? I can walk the edge of the water along the beach then? I couldnt do that this case, as there was ice, so I was walking on the ice. Maybe there is a high water line to walk, like the rivers have? just as long as you dont access the property by crossing over private property? Just curious really.

Thanks

 

[quinner01]

I was also told by the one landowner that he knew people that owned a small section of beach off of a public beach in Port Stanley. They couldnt prevent people from walking through their beach area, but people werent allowed to set up camp there, so maybe this is true..

 

[elevatorman]

Most lake front property owners on Erie own a certain amount from the road to the water (say 150'). So if there is 200' of land from the road to the water, you have 50' of public beach. At least that's how it is at the cottage. Problem being is you don't know how much they own.

Dan B.

www.Fish-A-Thon.com

 

[fisherman]

25 ft/ from the high water mark on lake erie is crown owned land or native run if ur close to native land// its against the law to have a land owner come out and chastize you call the opp hell set them strait this is a law forgot the number in fed stats if the land owner and opp dont know oceans and fisheries can be involved in the dispute/nagivable water ways are not to be interfered with bin there done it[|)][|)]8[:I] creeks are a little different unless their nagivigatable or dug channels[:X]its against the law to harass a fishing person on these waterways can result in serious charges but cooler heads must preavail[:X]

 

[quinner01]

Thats good to know. I know small creeks can be different, but thats good to know about the lake erie shore. Thanks

 

[Buckster]

But more importantly, did u hit any fish?

 

[quinner01]

Nope, none, only was fishing for maybe a half hour before the one land owner seen us, and that was the end. Guess he didnt like us standing in Lake Erie... We had a couple items on the beach (net, extra rod) but we were knee deep out in the lake.

 

[keeper]

I believe that the original intent was a place for shipwrecked sailors to come ashore. Some landowners just BS people so they can keep the game area for themselves.

There are some exceptions for example Tiny Township up around Wasga Beach. Up there the cottagers own the beach front.

Rumour has it that a mile around Bait Island at Long Point is part of the deed.

Look at New Bruinswick where many of the best streams are owned privately.

 

[breakingclay]

read this it may help

http://www.greybruceoutdoors.com/guestwriters/ChrisHutton-navigablewaters.shtml

Scott

 

[quinner01]

Breakingclay, that was a great read. Thanks. I still think the rules are most likely different for lake erie though. Do landowners own every inch right up to the water of lake erie? Is there a high water line that can be walked? As the lake can be higher or lower by a couple feet any given year. Maybe there are so many feet from the start of the lake, onto the land, that can be walked (ie. the first 25 feet of land like stated above I believe).

Is there registry offices in each town that one can go and get a definite answer for a specific lot of land? Thanks for the replies.

 

[JustForUs]

I would imagine if you really want to get into it then the best place would be the land registry office. Depending upon the township it normally is with in the court house. If you know the address then you can look up the survey and get the exact lot size etc.

 

[fisherman]

[)]the office of oceans and fisheries will give you the info neededthey dont take kindly to offenders of the right to be on or near nagivable water ways m/c donald owner of turkey point was raked over the coals over right of ways by cottage owners to nagivate their channels out to the lake/ he threatened to lock em in the lady from oceans and fisheries told him legal action would persue him if he did / same for crown owned land on great lakes they are for the public any one who interferes with that should be reportedno one i re4peat no one can stop yopu from embarking on the high waters of any great lake shore line on the canadian side if they attempt it call 911 if the local opp wont take it ask for the mounties they will so take charge and will enforce it [^] bi there done it

 

[fisherman]

[:I]also to add you have to be carefull on small rivers the land owner can own to middle of creeks and small rivers but again if its navigable you can float tube or canoe it with impunity they haqve to give you the right [)]its also in the fed ; regs its agaibnst the law to bother any fisherman or hunter the cops or mounties or mnr peeps are the only ones to enforce this or any fedral stats / its in the fed stats. bill numbers i orget so if you are harrased call 911 turn this into a legal sitituation[V]no smaller lakes and rivers and creeks might be non usable but the law can make the owner proove it so be nice ans stay safe be nice to the bitchers make em prove it in a nioce way [^]

 

[duckduckgoose]

Try to find "high-water mark" in any Ontario or Canadian piece of legislation these days. You can find allusions to it in "shoreline" bits, but I haven't found anything that says "high-water"- if someone's done more research here than me, I'd love to hear it.
Coastal areas are hard to navigate as far as "property rights" go. Across the lake, Ohio is having this exact discussion, and is basically trying to establish something that seems a lot like a high-water mark, but it's still open for debate and interpretation. Stay in the water and very few defensible interpretations would put you in the wrong. In my opinion, lots of not awesome advice in this thread.

 

[SRT8]

There's a lot of way better fishing in the area Quinner it is nice to have options but this spot isn't worth the headache, I don't think so anyways

I would like to thank Denali custom rods and The Rod Glove for their support

 

[Bass Assassin]

That's good to know. The stakes in the lake that specify "private property" seem to be going out into the lake more and more every year. next time I'm going to tell the guy to go to hell.

 

[Stick]

Bass Assassin....If you are talking about the stakes around Millionaires you will lose. They will move you and charge you with trespassing and win. We used to, as young stupid teenagers will do, decoy the caretaker with one boat to be chased and another to fish after they left. Could have cost us big time. A few have challenged them in court and all have lost.

To all. I look at the private property question this way. If someone asks you to leave you should have asked permission in the first place. And it is up to you to prove they don't own the area you are tresspassing in. Chances are pretty good that you are in their back yard, and as a home owner, no one I don't want is going to hang around in my backyard. You can be charged very easily if you refuse to leave. Check out the Tresspass to Property Act in Ontario.

I've been lucky from the start of my fishing career. My father worked for the tobacco board and knew every farmer in the area. I've been able to fish so many inaccessable areas because he or I've talked to the land owner first. Many of those people just want their privacy like everyone else. Many of those landowners I now consider as friends and most allow me to drive right on in, sometimes right to my favourite runs and park because they know I will watch out for their properties as if it were my own. I even enjoy the odd ride throughout their property if the landowner comes along and just wants to see a few fish caught. Right now and until after opener this property I'm thinking of will be a very busy place. So if you happen to be there and see me in the farmers truck smoking one of his cigars you will know the exact property I'm talking about.

I used to believe it was better to ask forgiveness than permission but when it comes to getting access to beautiful flowing water, I've learned that the opposite makes for a much more enjoyable day......And no one is blasting shotgun pellets over my head anymore.....True story!

Stick

"Rivers are living things, sometimes swollen and discoloured, other times thin and anaemic. Spend enough time around a particular river, you learn to read its moods, like a spouse reads a partner."

Gord Ellis ONTARIO OUT OF DOORS

 

[quinner01]

You tell em bass assassin. More people should, we as anglers always get **** on when it comes to fishing and private property..land owners who think they own everything.

 

[SRT8]

if your talking about the stakes by the millionaires and turkey point marsh they have rights that are very old and allow us to fish there out of hunting season so I wouldn't be to rude (don't get me wrong I don't like it either but it's partly responsible for the great fishing in the bay)we as anglers need to KNOW the rules and not go around cursing at landowners be polite and get the police or fisheries and oceans involved if they are unruley or violent it sometimes sucks to be the better person and walk away but the public unfortunately paints all anglers/hunters with the same brush. we do have the right to fish without being harrased but we also need to follow the rules and show some respect to land owners weather they deserve it or not. Not disagreeing with you this is just my 2 cents on the the access issue

I would like to thank Denali custom rods and The Rod Glove for their support

 

[SRT8]

LOL must of posted at the same time Stick

I would like to thank Denali custom rods and The Rod Glove for their support