Port Stanley Rescue

B

Big Dave

Guest
Brilliant on a very rough day


Kite surfer rescued near Port Stanley
JW

Elgin OPP Marine Unit and Central Elgin Fire Rescue Boat braved high winds and large waves yesterday to rescue a kite surfer from the waters of Lake Erie.
The incident occurred just after 2pm on October 7, 2013 when a 23 year old Thames Centre, ON man who was kite surfing out in front of Main Beach in Port Stanley, Central Elgin encountered difficulties and was swept into the west side of the concrete break wall pier. The Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Trenton** was contacted and dispatched a rescue helicopter from Trenton as well as notifying local police and emergency rescue agencies.
As the incident unfounded the waves, which were so large, was carried the man over the break wall and into the inner harbour, he was then pushed by the current out of the inner harbour and carried by the waves into the east break walls out edge. The man managed to get himself onto the rocks of the east break walls out edge when the OPP Marine Unit and Central Elgin Fire Rescue Boat arrived on scene. Rescue crews plucked him off the rocks and then transported him to emergency crews waiting on shore.
The kite surfer, who had been in the water for approximately 20 minutes, refused ambulance assistance.
At the time of the incident winds were gusting up to 61km/h out of the South and waves were 2 – 2.5 m (8-10ft) in height and higher closer to shore. The water temperature was 19 º C (66ºF).
**The Joint Rescue Coordination Centre Trenton (JRCC Trenton) is a rescue coordination centre operated by the Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) and the Canadian Coast Guard (CCG).
JRCC Trenton is responsible for coordinating the Search and Rescue (SAR) response to air and marine incidents

BD
 
Another good ending to what could have been a tragedy. Hats off to all the emergency services personnel. They risk their lives to save others, we recognize the sacrifices that our armed services guys and gals give for us, and well deserved, we sometimes take for granted folks we never see but sleep better because we know they are there in a moments notice. That includes our police.

I'm not going to give a lecture on water safety. I was recently reminded that an annual outing for us when we where kids in Hamilton was to ski down the Niagara escarpment above the Kenilworth traffic circle every New Years Day. Ungroomed hills at about a 40 degree grade or more. If you made it down the mountain alive you had to control your stop so you didn't run into traffic. That's nuts. Our kids think they invented extreme sports, sex, drugs and rock and roll.
 
careful what you wish for (he gets the bill). while I will admit being out in those kinds of conditions is probably asking for trouble - one never knows when those emergency services might be needed for what someone else might think is foolish behavour.

If a person is knowingly putting themselves in danger after having been warned or told not to (e.g driving on a closed road)- then I can see passing along the costs or levying fines.
 
A very slippery slope indeed. Who makes the determination as to what is a billable offence? How much will our courts further be backed up as I strongly believe any one is going to challenge a bill in the thousands or many thousands of dollars? If it's not illegal do I not have the right to do something idiotic. I do believe there are some jurisdictions here and in the US that will pass the costs on where there is a blatant disregard for their own safety as well as the safety of those that risk their own lives to save that of an idiot.

An act of attempting a stunt in Niagara Falls comes to mind. If a rescue worker dies in the act of saving someone that does something stupid like this should manslaughter charges be considered? Or going out into Lake Erie 5 miles or even more, or less in a storm,to fish in a 14' aluminum with a 9.9 is another venture into idiocy, and yes I know some are reading this, you may be a nice person but fall under stupid in my books. It sure isn't illegal.

Just my humble opine.
 
A very slippery slope indeed. Who makes the determination as to what is a billable offence?

Apparently someone around lake simcoe feels they can determine how much people will have to pay. Last year a bunch of anglers trapped on an ice flow were fined $200 while another man who went through the ice on a separate occasion was fined $5500 for rescue.

A bunch of BS if you ask me...
 
The way I see this is that we all pay taxes...smart, stupid or somewhere in the middle...so we should all be privy to the search and rescue services...whether we are smart or stupid. These rescue people get paid either way. The job has risks. Same goes for the ice fishing situation.
 
I think one should pay.

Why should a volunteer firefighter or a paramedic have to risk their lives or well being. If someone ignores warnings or goes beyond the realm of common sense?

They should pay for their actions or stupidity.

Perhaps an insurance policy for the stupid should be offered:rolleyes:

BD
 
Apparently someone around lake simcoe feels they can determine how much people will have to pay. Last year a bunch of anglers trapped on an ice flow were fined $200 while another man who went through the ice on a separate occasion was fined $5500 for rescue.
Fined or billed.
A big difference.
A fine comes with a court date to dispute it & a bill requires a court date to collect if disputed.
 
I think one should pay.

Why should a volunteer firefighter or a paramedic have to risk their lives or well being. If someone ignores warnings or goes beyond the realm of common sense?

They should pay for their actions or stupidity.

Perhaps an insurance policy for the stupid should be offered:rolleyes:

BD


But on the flip side, when was the last time someone was given the bill for rescue fees for other situations that were caused by negligence?

-car crash due to speeding or dui
-trapped/buried construction workers
-house fire caused by cooking, candle, or cigarette
-fisherman/hunter who falls into the water or is swamped by a freak storm that blew in

Firemen and medics sign up for the job knowing full well that they will have to put their lives on the line and they're expected to do so as it's their job. Saying they shouldn't need to risk their lives sometimes is like saying a plumber shouldn't have to get some poop on his hands once in a while. It's part of the job. I'd say the majority of their calls are related to human negligence and very few calls are due to actual 1-in-a-million freak accidents where no human is to blame.
 
Fined or billed.
A big difference.
A fine comes with a court date to dispute it & a bill requires a court date to collect if disputed.

Fines.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...after_oromedonte_council_votes_on_matter.html

"According to the bylaw, a charge by police would require the municipality to immediately fine the anglers. Because the OPP has said it will not pursue any criminal or financial charges, the decision to fine the men rests with council."
 
Car crash/dui is billed to the operator and taken care of through insurance. a trapped construction worker has fines levied to company, burned house is also paid by insurance. Someone going out in 10' waves on a board with a kite is a moron and deserves to pay..

Cmon, the winds were gusting 41kts on that day and this moron goes out on the lake? Someone goes out on unsafe ice and then a volunteer needs to risk their life to get them?

If u speed you get fined, DUI you get fined. Firemen and medics put their lives on the line for accidents. Stupidity is not one of their favorites.....and freak storm is just that, it isn't knowingly going out to risk...
 
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Both sides of the debate are valid. This debate I enjoy. I am on the side of charging for services when a person decides to disregard their own safety and in doing so automatically disregarded the safety of a rescue crew. This guy in a kite in those conditions which most of us out here saw first hand should foot the bill for the emergency services. Yes they are already on call or standing by, but our regions budget shouldn't be affected. That person and all those that would consider doing something idiotic like that might think twice.
 
The other thing is considering our limited resources for services out here if an emergency comes up our guys and gals are out there helping this numbskull and not at the scene of an accident or someone who didn't do something stupid.
 
Fines.



http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...after_oromedonte_council_votes_on_matter.html

"According to the bylaw, a charge by police would require the municipality to immediately fine the anglers. Because the OPP has said it will not pursue any criminal or financial charges, the decision to fine the men rests with council."

Just because a reporter writes fines does not make it so. They were billed fees under the by-law.
Here's a link to the actual by-law.
http://docs.oro-medonte.ca/Docs/DocView.aspx?id=36163&&dbid=0
Pg. 7 deals with Emergency Services fees.
No mention of fines anywhere in the by-law.
 
Ok..a scenario...someone takes a long boat ride to fish off Hastings for example....ok...so they were stupid and forgot to check their gas and run out...a northerly wind takes them south and winds pick up...they need to call for help and are rescued by helicopter or coast guard....no way IMO should they be expected to pay even though they were "stupid" and didn't check their gas..in our society we deal with stupid people all the time and pay for their mistakes..everyone knows smoking kills and yet we all pay for their stupidity via hospital care etc. Why should stupidity in the outdoors be any different.
 
The way I see this is that we all pay taxes...smart, stupid or somewhere in the middle...so we should all be privy to the search and rescue services...whether we are smart or stupid. These rescue people get paid either way. The job has risks. Same goes for the ice fishing situation.

JohnPK, I agree with you. Taxes paid cover us for fire, police, army, whatever.... There may be a line where a person may be charged. I don't know the regulations, but for day to day, rescue should be covered.
What about a minor who runs away from a campsite after a disagreement with their caregiver (mom, dad, camp leader etc)? They have to be looked for. But what about a rock climber who goes up a mountain with avalanche warnings posted? Two ends of the scale. What about a boater whose engine is running just fine, but one day it quits while out 10 miles? Is that somewhere in the middle?
I would not like to be the person who says "You pay. You do not pay." A clear regulation should be there.
As for the rescuers, paid personnel know what they are in for and are paid. They have the training, and benefits.
As for volunteer fire crews, coast guard aux, etc, they all get compensated for calls. They just are not on a payroll whether or not on a call like the "regulars". They also have training. They also have benefits for healthcare, should things go bad for them. They know what they stepped up into.

Many of us are on differing sides of this. Maybe it's best to agree to disagree, and let the legislation be ironed out eventually. That will happen if enough people go to their elected politician.

Respectfully,
BillO
 
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