Please tell me I am WRONG! Houston, we have a problem. COVID - 19 V2

We all need each other , remember China makes most of our medicine and over 90 percent of our antibiotics, and they sent us millions of masks unlike our friends from the USA trying to stop 3m from shipping us protection gear,. They must forget we send thousands of nurses there daily and have the trees which make the special pulp for those 3m masks
 
It is likely not Fake News but in a way, since it's a virus, it can be seasonal like flu, i.e. it may come back. We do not know enough about its nature YET but look on the bright side:
1. There are two antibiotics that show very promising results all across the world (hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin). People get to be symptom-free in sometimes at little as 8-12 hours after taking it.
2. There will be a vaccine though it would take 1-2 years to finally approve it by all the bureaucracies.

This is not a reason to panic but a reason to be careful and observe precautions like we are doing now. This situation should start gradually relaxing as far as closures and getting back to work is concerned. The country will get much more damaged if this continues for another 4-6 months, the damage will be hard to undo.

If anyone REALLY wants to make a difference, it would start with realizing that it's better to not buy a t-shirt in Walmart for $3 but may be for $30 in your local store with a label "made in Canada". This would be a day I would love to live to see! BTW this may also reduce pollution for all the green BS lovers. We buy very little things that are made in China, just seeing that label already gives me a tick. We also do not shop in Walmart, this place destroyed lots of small businesses and retailers and people's lives. All the industries should switch to this - "Made In Canada" should not just be on the Molson cans and bottles.
 
Chloroquine is not an antibiotic. Its an anti-malaria drug. I was on its sister medication ahead of my last safari in Africa. Azithromycin is common and typically prescribed in whats known as a "Zpack" and is a basic anti-biotic. Readily prescribed I carry it for international travel in case I have any issues away from healthcare. Jury is still out on effectiveness of these drugs. Im skeptical but will not delve into my reasoning.

I look very hard at my clothing labels, want to see a made ANYWHERE but China label. Canada or USA always preferable. Apple really pisses me off with their China production but I dont have a viable alternative since Blackberry went to hell.

I lived in Shanghai, China for over a year and traveled the region extensively the following three, saw everything I needed to see. I dont believe a single word out of their media. They absolutely lied and covered this up. Every single one of these deals originates there. H5N1, Birdflu, SARS and now Covid. Im not sure what the solution is beyond WW3 as previously stated and nobody wants that. Otherwise a significant and punishing boycott. With that will be a lot of tears when consumer goods prices skyrocket. Im good with that but Im not sure about the average person. I absolutely will not buy food products made there.

I cannot fathom what their real death toll was from this. Id say well over 100k people if the truth were told. They work overtime to keep their blunders and engineering catastrophes under wraps. Much harder for them with the global expat community they have living there and our use of VPNs to get around their internet firewalls.
 
@Elmerfudd I remember the other winter my kids were given Azithromycin when they were sick. Canadian media is not there yet to tell you this, mainly for political reasons - it will make Trump look good after he said this treatment looks promising and a few people started drinking fish cleaner tanks.... So far it looks VERY promising, and this is good news no matter who is in the White House, and we should be told about this in Canada. Yes, it did not go through the full FDA approval and therefore is allowed on emergency basis. That's all I meant to say. Nobody knows the full extent of all the side effects, but Governors of NY, MI and other states allowed emergency treatment and the results are very encouraging - people who were in dire condition are getting much better!

I would ask tomorrow my Chinese co-worker whether he knows what is the latest from China... he just might.
 
Elmerfudd said:
Chloroquine is not an antibiotic. Its an anti-malaria drug. I was on its sister medication ahead of my last safari in Africa. Azithromycin is common and typically prescribed in whats known as a "Zpack" and is a basic anti-biotic. Readily prescribed I carry it for international travel in case I have any issues away from healthcare. Jury is still out on effectiveness of these drugs. Im skeptical but will not delve into my reasoning.

I look very hard at my clothing labels, want to see a made ANYWHERE but China label. Canada or USA always preferable. Apple really pisses me off with their China production but I dont have a viable alternative since Blackberry went to hell.

I lived in Shanghai, China for over a year and traveled the region extensively the following three, saw everything I needed to see. I dont believe a single word out of their media. They absolutely lied and covered this up. Every single one of these deals originates there. H5N1, Birdflu, SARS and now Covid. Im not sure what the solution is beyond WW3 as previously stated and nobody wants that. Otherwise a significant and punishing boycott. With that will be a lot of tears when consumer goods prices skyrocket. Im good with that but Im not sure about the average person. I absolutely will not buy food products made there.

I cannot fathom what their real death toll was from this. Id say well over 100k people if the truth were told. They work overtime to keep their blunders and engineering catastrophes under wraps. Much harder for them with the global expat community they have living there and our use of VPNs to get around their internet firewalls.
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The scientific community believes the numbers from China need to be multiplied by 40.
 
Fun fact, Guess who invented the VCR?
Charles Paulson Ginsburg
Videotape Recorder (VTR)
Inventor Charles Paulson Ginsburg, otherwise known as the “father of the video cassette recorder,” was born in San Francisco in 1920.
Guess who sold the rights, patents etc. for the VCR after it was invented. The Americans.
Point is. the USA created this mess.
Why? Most likely thought it had limited uses. Why? Back then it was all about the Movie Theatre.
Never in their wildest dreams did they know how the future would turn out.
 
I too have travelled China and been in those very markets similar to where this all started! They keep the animals alive, with the larger animals, they break their legs so they can’t run, and have them chained. There was blood and everything else running into the sewers and drains. No refrigeration for the many so that’s what they do.
As for the death reports from China I saw a stat that as many a 500 bodies per day were being delivered to (each of) the multiple crematoriums in the epicentre area.
Somehow the #s don’t equate to China’s claims.
Big picture.....
Until 3rd world countries catch up to North America, Germany, France etc both in ideology and physical ways of life we are going to have the same problem.
Disease, terrorism and inequality with manufacturing and goods.
You can say that we need them but do we really? We have everything we need in North America and if you want to narrow it down, Canada.
Saying we need them is very short sighted. All we are doing is sending our $ there and enabling them.
 
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I have spend my work life in manufacturing and have spent the last 40 years watching all the work moved offshore. Very little is truly made in North America (Canada/USA) . The stickers that say made in USA or Canada are about the only thing. Maybe this will bring some of the work back.
 
oldcutmarina said:
Sooooooooo, I have been informed that China has this Virus under control....And they have relaxed some of the rules. That's great news! But wait, now the second round of this virus is a reality. Us stupid humans.....just because they reopened the pool, doesn't mean you can drink the water.
Can someone please tell me it's FAKE NEWS,
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It is true and it will remain true until we gain "herd immunity" this is when approximately 40% of the herd becomes immune to the virus either through being infected and surviving or a vaccine. It will take a couple years to get there.
 
I think instead of boycott import goods, we should bring the manufacture back, especially the essential ones. even our big brother in the south can not be total trusted. in the same time, stop outsourcing job to other continents. in short term we may pay high price, but this will make our country stronger in long term.
 
So, the title of the thread starts by saying, " Please tell me I am WRONG!"

So, after reading all the responses so far, I'm going to do exactly what oldcutmarina asked us to do since nobody else has yet done it.

oldcutmarina.........just because this is what you asked us to do............you're wrong! ;)

You're welcome :LOL:

Now as for the rest.........I have an education in Supply Chain Management and Logistics and I can tell you this.....Globalization is here, and it's not going to go away. Companies and nations who accept it, thrive. Those that don't, get left behind.

In this world of the global economy, the international exchange of goods and services, having strong and healthy Supply Chains relies on strong relationships and trade agreements as they are imperative and essential to maintain not only your businesses and your economy, but that of your trading partners throughout the world. If you are unable or unwilling to trade with other nations in accordance with in place agreements, jobs are lost, businesses close and economies could collapse.

Likewise, if you can’t sell what you’re manufacturing, or buy what you need to manufacture it, because there is no longer a demand for your product because it is easier and cheaper to get it elsewhere at the same quality or perhaps your competition has surpassed your capabilities and quality, essentially making their product better than yours and at a better price, because they have accepted globalization when you haven't, there isn’t a demand for your product anymore and jobs disappear! It is that simple.

As a consumer, you want the best quality product, for the lowest possible price. Manufacturers want to provide a quality product for the lowest possible cost to manufacture that product so they may keep the price you pay as low as possible. If they can make their product with the same quality, for a lower cost to produce that product elsewhere, that is what they are going to do.

If for example it cost a Canadian manufacturer $75,000/month in facility costs, $50,000/month in supplier costs, $50,000/month in R&D costs, $50,000/month in transportation costs to ship or receive product, and $75,000/month in wages for a total operating cost of $300,000/month in total operational costs to produce their product, but by moving to China they could do it for $250,000, by moving to the United States, they could do it for $175,000 and by moving to Mexico they could do it for $150,000. What would you do?

The other option that is available to businesses to mitigate their losses is the easiest of them all to implement. Cutting the workforce. Automation is killing off good paying jobs as much, if not more than a business relocating their production facilities out of country. CEO’s, and shareholders alike are asking a simple question, “How can we restructure and eliminate these positions to save on labor costs? Can we consolidate them into one position, or is automation a viable option to explore?” If the cost to automate is cheaper than it is to maintain the workforce at the current level, as an executive responsible to report to the shareholders and keep costs down and profits up, what would you do? What would your recommendations be?

Remember this if you remember nothing else, businesses are in business to make money. Whether that’s the pizza place on the corner, or the huge manufacturing plant on the other side of town. CEO's and Presidents of companies must answer to the shareholders. The profit margin is all that matters in the end. The most important question being asked is always, “How much did we make over what we paid in costs, and fees? What is our net profit?” Manufacturers are ALWAYS looking to reduce their costs to make their product, and in their efforts to do so, they will either reduce their workforce (if they must), they may automate, or they may relocate. They will do whatever it takes to reduce their costs, and even then after exhausting all available cost reduction measures, they still may close their doors, because those cost reductions they do find simply are not enough to outweigh their costs and remain competitive. Whether any of us like it or not, THAT is why companies close and move. Either way, it always costs people their jobs.
 
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Did they {the Chinese} fudge their numbers and/or delay information ? I would not doubt it. It's the nature of the beast.
This could well be what's needed to put Made in Canada or Made in the USA mean exactly that ! As consumers we are going to have to pay big for items and greedy corporations are going to have to lower their profit margins in order for this to happen. Maybe the captains of industry will see the light and as consumers maybe we should do our part and stop buying the cheaper foreign things. Be a good Canadian ! Buy Canadian ! Or at least buy American. Oh yes don't forget our Mexican trading partner. Bring back the Port Rowan Tomatoe Packing Plant ?
 
I've spoken with my Chinese co-worker. He believes the real numbers are 5-10 times higher. Worth noting that his home town of only about 30 million people only had about 300 cases and under 10 deaths. The lock-down there started much earlier, and when communists say lock-down, they mean it.

As for the great ideas of Made In Canada... I don't think this would happen anytime soon. Don't mean to start politics here but it's a big political will, change of many hearts and leaderships. Someone who understands industries, economies, etc (local and global), and at the same time someone who cares for the country and fellow citizens, and not ashamed about that! So far, none of the political parties has anyone even remotely close to that position. NONE. They are all establishment faces, sellouts, or just plain suckers / losers.
 
I.ve been watchin where stuff is made for quite sometime noe
 
It’s not just about the work going offshore.
It’s about disease and terrorism as well now. We don’t know yet how bad our economy is going to be.
Can you imagine another one of these outbreaks with another virus? They say the odds are heavily in favour of it happening.
In this day and age for the economy of a country to be strong it is going to have to become self sufficient and export. Or you end up with the crap that is happening now.
We have all the natural resources and enough smart people to do it. Restrictions and sanctions, tariffs maybe the way to go.
I can’t help but think that that’s the way the USA is headed and we need to follow or we will be left out in the “ cold”... Alone, weak with a bunch of minorities running the country instead of the strong unified country we could be.
 
m burr said:
tariffs maybe the way to go.
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That's not the answer. You want to keep tariffs as low, and on as few products as possible. A "trade war" so called, initiated and the sure to follow obligatory tit-for-tat response is good for nobody. When there is a "trade war" it is ALWAYS the consumer and the workforce who pays for it in the end. Higher tariffs on imported and exported products to or from your trading partners will force them to be obliged to follow suit in imposing similar tariffs of their own on products flowing into their countries from you. IE using Canada, the US and Mexico as the examples. People in all three countries will lose their jobs in great numbers, which did happen when the US imposed tariffs on Canadian softwood lumber, and Canada retaliated in kind on American products. Why, because those manufacturers must now account for those higher costs they are being forced to incur. IF they can't, they'll start laying people off. They'll start closing their doors. History has shown this to be true. A trade war? It’s a lose-lose situation for everyone.

Negotiated trade agreements with robust dispute resolution measures included in those agreements where each party involved walks away from the table feeling they have a mutually beneficial agreement is the answer. That's why the Americans wanted to renegotiate NAFTA. It was outdated, and all parties agreed it was time to renegotiate it and bring it up to date. HOWEVER....

A good negotiator looks for a mutually beneficial outcome for all parties involved while working to achieve the goals of their organization or country. A great one insists on it. They also understand, accept, and expect that to "get the best possible deal" will require them to make concessions to their negotiating partners. This idea that the only successful negotiation is one where “we win, they lose or we’ll walk away,” that isn’t negotiating, that is dictating and as we’ve all seen, dictating doesn’t get positive results.

"If we don't get what we want, we'll walk away," before any negotiating has taken place or stating as the Americans did during the renegotiation that "the US would make no concessions to Canada and that he (Trump) didn't plan to compromise with Canada at all on NAFTA, that he had notified Congress that he intended to sign a separate agreement with Mexico within 90 days, and Canada could join that agreement, “if it was willing.”That is not good negotiating. In fact, it isn’t negotiating at all. Again, it's dictating. Your negotiating team might be told these things privately, but you never say such things publicly. It creates mistrust and hostility between the negotiating parties. It creates an accusation of failing to negotiate in good faith AND it leaves the lingering questions of "will they honor their agreements and abide by the terms of those agreements? Will they do what they say they will do?"

You don't want those questions hanging over a completed agreement of any kind. You want to be able to have complete and full confidence that all parties will do exactly what they said they would do, and they will abide by the terms of the agreements they have signed. IF you have doubts they won't do so, then you shouldn't be signing those agreements.

Any novice negotiator would tell you, anyone walking into any negotiation saying, “you will give me what I want or else,” would be shown the door immediately and told to come back when they were serious about negotiating and doing so in good faith so that the end result is a mutually beneficial agreement between all parties. The giving of an ultimatum before any negotiations have begun is irresponsible, irrational, and counterproductive to achieving a successful negotiation. It creates hostility and mistrust which in turn are serious barriers to productive communication during negotiation. You can state what your negotiating goals are that you hope to achieve, but you never give what amounts to an ultimatum before you even sit down to start those negotiations.

m burr said:
I can’t help but think that that’s the way the USA is headed and we need to follow or we will be left out in the “ cold”...
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We shouldn't be "following" the Americans. We should be setting the example to be followed.
 
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Trevor those are some good points. from where Im sitting straddling both sides of the border, the NAFTA renegotiation was full of bluster and declarations playing to the media and party faithful that I think we can agree did not go down that way behind closed doors. Regardless, the three nations have somewhat of a level playing field to start from. Ditto the moat building around the US that Trump espouses in his daily briefing. Most of it is bluster and the Canadians cant vote for him so pissing them off is the least of his concerns. Reality is that goods and services will continue to flow both ways as necessity and commerce dictate. Yes in fact I CAN get across the border if need be. Just dont like the idea of quarantines in both directions and Im smart so Im staying home.

My concern with China is primarily the artificial manipulation of their currency and domestic economics even as they howl in protest over tariffs that other nations may impose. China has MASSIVE tariffs on imported goods for domestic consumption. Im stunned it is not raised more frequently. In Shanghai, anything not made in China, by a Chinese firm has a 30% tax built in automatically. So a Huawei phone is dirt cheap. An Apple or Samsung phone is 30% higher out of the gate due to the tariff and its laughable when you consider that the Apple phone is made inside China. Ditto virtually any other item, cars, clothes, food, etc. If its a foreign owned firm, its tagged with 30% regardless of point of origin.

And the intellectual property theft is astonishing, just absolutely astonishing. The stories I can tell - video cameras over my head hidden in the ceiling tiles, demands for turnover of IP as part of access to the market, "design bureaus" that need to approve anything you do, etc etc. Globally we need to come together and set them straight, regardless of the near term pain.
 
The sad part is we live in the breadbasket of the world as far as food production but cannot find qualified people to work in the fields. We are now on the brink of possible food shortages as the offshore workers are not coming. Get ready put away what you can you may need it. Our government has put so much regulation in place you can never meet all the rules. No local processers for meat , fruits and vegetables mostly due to the cost of upgrades to meet regs here but import fish from elsewhere raised under chickens fed offal from other species processed there. All one farm raising hogs, cattle sheep, chicken and fish. Yummy
 
tailfeathers said:
The sad part is we live in the breadbasket of the world as far as food production but cannot find qualified people to work in the fields. We are now on the brink of possible food shortages as the offshore workers are not coming. Get ready put away what you can you may need it. Our government has put so much regulation in place you can never meet all the rules. No local processers for meat , fruits and vegetables mostly due to the cost of upgrades to meet regs here but import fish from elsewhere raised under chickens fed offal from other species processed there. All one farm raising hogs, cattle sheep, chicken and fish. Yummy
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Remember we used to have People to work in agriculture. They were called teenagers . Some of the best fun I ever had
 
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