Long Point Old Boys Club -Secrets Revealled!

That little bit of business Ernie notes above was a fine example of why folks think there is an Old Boys Club that does more than sit around the campfire on a Friday night. The reinstatement of the secretary speaks to the culture of entitlement. It was a legal move but highly unethical in my honest opinion.

Cam made the following point in one of his posts...

"If you don't like the "flavour of the LPWA" then you have the option of writing the people who really run the Unit, the MNR, the Park or the OFAH. However, unless you have a lot of friends who feel the same I doubt you will get much of a hearing."

This is absolutely true. It will take a highly organized and well run opposition to make change. No one person will be able to do it. I have no doubt the day will come and I can only hope that it is a hunting group that brings it forward. The risk is great that it could end hunting in the crown marsh if the wrong people get involved.

I am not an internet hunter Cam and I don't give a damn who is a member of the OBC or even if there is one. I do, however, strongly believe that the LPWA needs to be seen as an ethical organization that holds itself to the highest standards of behavior. It is critical to the long term viability of hunting at Long Point.

Just to be clear... I believe there are many good people who are members of the LPWA and who sit on the executive of the LPWA. I also believe these same good people have good intentions and do many good things on behalf of hunters at Long Point. It is a shame when it all gets tainted by the actions of a few and is then endorsed by silence and support of the many. It is my experience that this then leads to comments about the Old Boys Club.



Paul
 
Holy Crap ! Just back from the Point. Still getting over being called a member of the infamous "Old Boys Club" and a "bully" ? ROTFLMAO !!! Will have to reread Singlemalts thread from the begining before I pass comment.

Chris Kozak
Sustaining Member of the LPWA
but not a member of the OBC unless by virtue of age and expierence.
 
Wow, thought I started a positive discussion about inclusion and sharing tradition. I guess I should have anticipated it could go the other way. I don't have the patience for a bunch of internet bickering any longer so I am not going to take the bait Icenut. All I will say is if you,or anyone else, are aware of anyone breaking the rules including not being in the park while their vehicle is in the line-up you should report it to Fred or one of the other park staff, I don't care if the offender is LPWA, OBC or the Dali Lamma. It's their responsibility to enforce the rules.
 
OCLP, I would have put you in the category of those who inherited memebership in the OBC. However, it is a secret organization so you can never be sure who is in and who is out. I am not even sure you can choose not to be a member once enough people think you are in. ;)
 
Well said icenut.

I have stayed out of the LPWA dealings for 2 seasons now


The LPWA is a great organization and does some incredible work for this marsh.

As for the "Ole Boys Club", let me tell you some of the underhanded dealing I have witnessed over the years.

I am not going to name names but as this is read by some they will know to whom I am referring.

I received a phone call one time from a well known and respected person from outside the LPWA. However someone who was involved with the unit, asking me to vote for a certain person for President because they wanted the other President out. They were successful.

I have personally witnessed a LPWA executive putting a vehicle in line to save a spot for their "friend" who is coming later in the day.

Seen a draw for reservation held early. I raised this issue as I had taken reservation forms in for the goose pits 2hrs prior to the deadline to be told the draw was already made. In order to quiet me they put my name first on the "A" zone side and moved everyone else down. I should not have accepted this but I did and am not proud of it. The person drawn that was on the executive, and remained first that day for the Pîts

One day I watched some friends come out of a blind that had done well. I was second on re-rent list and went in for the scheduled re rent time to find that blind had been re-rented. Neither I nor the person first on the list had been given a chance at that blind. When I questioned it the truth came out that it was rented to a "friend" of the person in charge.

If you are one of the "OBC" you can park your vehicle in line and conveniently disappear for hours on end and sometimes overnight and have over whelming support that you were there the whole time. If you are not an OBC you can be sure the support is to have you removed from the line-up and the same goes for re-rent.

What about the vote from 09 where people bought memberships to vote on the issue to be sent their cards the week after the vote so they weren't counted or the ones who wanted to send in a vote but were intimidated because they had to sign their name to it? Not to mention the rest of the underhanded dealings involved in that.


As Icenut mentioned the antics involved in the proposal from spring of 09 were dispicable. The OBC should hang its head in shame but here you are now patting each other on the back and laughing.


Is there an Ole Boys Club? You figure it out.

Dave Warnica
 
Wow! If the Ole Boys Club is about inclusion and tradition, I think those are some traditions we can live without.


Paul
 
As I was explaing to Deputy Sheriff Barney Fife,it all started with some guy asking for some info about the "walk-ins" at the Unit and not liking what he got as a response started accusing a Member of being a "bully" and also being a member of the notorious "Old Boys Club" (henceforth known as OBC)

Well.....the V.P. on the BoD of the LPWA figures he'll clear this silly notion of a secert club up once and for all. Now.....his story starts off preeetty darn good and was written with "tongue in cheek" as far as I could tell. Oh sure...there was some kibbitzing back and forth but it was just the usual BS that the guys like ta do. Ya know....boys will be boys. WELL THEN ! Out of the blue one of dem Cluster#@<? bomb type of posts smacks him right tween the eyes ! So now it ain't looking good for our VP folks because this is turning into one of them gloves off anything goes type of Donnybrooks. When don't cha know it another Cluster#@<? post goes KAABOOOOOM !!!!

Well....I don't know about you but I'm fetchin a drink and an ashtray cause this beats the hell outta daytime TV !
 
Some interesting reading and different perspectives. And as a relative new comer, its a lot to take in.

I've seen first hand a few of the issues brought up. And being one of those guys that has to sleep in his car, I see things in the wee hours that others may not. Like the guy who gets dropped off by his wife in the morning around the corner and quietly walks to his truck that's been parked in the line up since the morning before.

But I digress. I'd rather try to keep the big picture in mind.

The future of the unit will eventually lay in the hands of the youth that will inevitably replace the proverbial old boys. Some will inherit it through relation of course, but the Unit needs to attract new hunters in general if it will survive in the future.

In general, most of the feedback I've heard over the years regarding the unit has sadly been negative. Most have tried it and were turned off by reasons ranging from politics to a bias line up system.

That said, I'm stubborn so I tried it anyways. All I got are my two feet and a heart beat (and a bit of know how). I'm use to working hard for birds. I've put in many hours at #3 and #4 because that's all I could get being pick 8 even after getting in the line up at 7pm the night before. Most new comers are turned off by this and never return.

So why is that a problem? Hunt somewhere else right? Well, I'm sure everyone has noticed that we as hunters are fighting a losing battle for land access. Every year there's more development, more public hunting access taken away, and less land owners willing to grant access. To add to this, there is little, if any, regulation on outfitters to prevent them from offering the "promise to pay" tactic in order to secure sole permission to vast quantities of private land. Thus removing current or future access from the local hunter.

Waterfowl hunter numbers in Canada are very low. We may have seen a slight increase, but over all they are still dropping. Add this to the fact that opposition to hunting is ever increasing. As hunting access drops, so then will hunter numbers. Our collective voice will grow quieter and not be heard over our opposition. And at the end of the day, the only "Old Boys Clubs" will be the ones swinging on the golf course. Therfore, it seems apparent that the unit remains a place where waterfowling can continue for generations to come. But it has to have the ability to coax new hunters. At the state its in now, I feel it does not.

As I understand it, the current trailer system, reservations, and sustaining membership fees generate a good chunk of change. So going to a lottery system may impact funding. But no matter how you slice it, the lottery system is the most fair to everyone. And a fair system will attract new hunters. At least, that's how I see it.
 
Don't wait up for me OCLP, not taking the bait. Happy Holidays to all and if you can still get out Happy Hunting!
 
quote:
Originally posted by singlemalt

Don't wait up for me OCLP, not taking the bait. Happy Holidays to all and if you can still get out Happy Hunting!




Funny thing is that from where I sit the bait looked like it was laid in the first post in this thread.

Paul
 
Hillarious Post OCLP.

I would imagine the LPWA wants this post to fade and die.

The arrogance of this thread amazes me and has re-opened hard feelings. I know I am not the only one who feels this way and have received more than a few calls from people who believe the same but do not want to be at the fore front in this.

Since it is open and I know I am not a favorite of the LPWA it will do me no more harm to share some other observations over the years.

You see there was a time I sat around that fire with some of the Boys. I wasn't there often, but occasionally. We all drank and told stories, sometimes we drank till late in the night, some guys till the wee hours of the morning. I have to admit that on more than one occasion I went to bed a little tipsy. I witnessed others who couldn't sit in a chair as they were beyond the realm of sober. More than once I smelled the distinct smell of pot as a joint was passed around the fire.

Every morning those guys would be at the Unit office, reeking of booze and a little pot, renting their blinds to go jump in thier vehicle, drive to a boat launch,, pilot their boat to a duck blind and then uncase and load a firearm. Now I am no cop but I would have to say that if a person went to bed at midnight or later and was impaired that 5 1/2 hours later they might still be impaired depending on their condition the night before.

Drive impaired, operate a boat impaired and then handle a firearm impaired! Seems pretty drastic. Who is liable on this? LPWMU? OFAH? Parks Ont? LPWA? or the hunter?

Is this the friendly campfire you all refer too? The free information session?

Or is this the part of the OLE BOYS CLUB no one wants public?

Big Dave
 
Singlemalt;

I don't see it as a matter of "taking the bait" as it "is your post" that has prompted this diatribe. Legitmate beefs have been aired and as you are the only Executive that is willing to post on this forum {Good question; Why don't we ever hear from the President ?} you should explain either yorself and/or your Boards standing regarding such issues.(sic)

To turn tail and runaway from what may be well a controversial issue(s) is all but showing the lack of fortitude that this Association will need in the future. I for one have always looked forward to you someday taking over the reins of power( again sic) as I know you to be a compentant and reasonable man.

Please do not disappoint me;
Chris Kozak
Sustaining Member
 
Big Dave
I have been a member of this board for some time now. I have posted a few fishing pics, asked for alot of advice and sold/bought a few items. I have followed a number of discussions on the board but never felt inclined to comment until now.

My son and I started hunting the Point 4 years ago when he was 12. We would drive down in the morning, get whatever pick we could and paddle out to our blind. The second year saw a boat and an old trailer parked in the back lot - we were hooked.

We never met alot of people the first year but by the second we started meeting our neighbours. The very nice guy next to us has fed us delicious bbq teal and was kind enough (and good hearted enough) to take my son on a fabolous hunt at one of the walkout blinds. The fellow in the next trailer down is in his late teens. He bought his own trailer last year and is an avid waterfowler who drives 1 1/2 hours to hunt the Point. The fellow on the other side of us is in his 70's or 80's. We haven't spoke to him a whole lot, but regardless, he has offered his geese decoys for us to use.

As far as the fire goes.... we can see it from our trailer. The first year I was a little surprised to see a number of perople standing around a rather large fire. I was sure it must be a meeting of the OBC. I think we may of visited the fire once during that first year - we kinda of kept to ourselves.

The 3rd and 4th year saw us getting to know our neighbours alittle more as well as visiting the fire alittle more often. My son and I like playing crib (we keep track of wins) but every now and then we will visit the fire. Never have I witnessed any of the accusations
you have made. I have seen a few cups with ice cubes, but that is it. Granted, we usually visit the fire earlier in the evening but on occasion we have been there later. I have not seen anyone stubbling and falling down drunk. We have met other duck hunters offering lots of advice as well as 4 duck hunters in their mid twenties (male and female)who just started waterfowling 2 years ago and now have a trailer as well.

I am disappointed with you Big Dave ..... it is obvious you comments have but only 1 intent.... to inflame others. Unfortunately you have also managed to tarnish and jepardize the place my son wants to hunt till he's as old as the old guy down by our trailer. Shame on you! I have followed several of the discussion on the board you have been involved in. I have given you some credence and credibility however, it is clear now you have a personal beef with some of the people who have been hunting the Unit for a number of years. Discussions on this board need to be kept within respectable boundaries ..... you have crossed those boundaries.

An Apology to the duck hunters of Long Point Bay is in order!
 
quote:
Originally posted by wetfootwilly

Big Dave


I am disappointed with you Big Dave ..... it is obvious you comments have but only 1 intent.... to inflame others. Unfortunately you have also managed to tarnish and jepardize the place my son wants to hunt till he's as old as the old guy down by our trailer. Shame on you! I have followed several of the discussion on the board you have been involved in. I have given you some credence and credibility however, it is clear now you have a personal beef with some of the people who have been hunting the Unit for a number of years. Discussions on this board need to be kept within respectable boundaries ..... you have crossed those boundaries.

An Apology to the duck hunters of Long Point Bay is in order!



Wetfootwilly,

I too have been to my share of the campfires although not in the last couple of years and can assure you that those things mentioned by Big Dave have happened on occasion in the past. No apology is necessary in my opinion except possibly to those folks who know they are not included in the comments and thought they might be directed at them. The old saying goes "if the shoe fits, wear it". Of course the other half of the story is implied... if it doesn't fit, it isn't for you.

There are folks with an axe to grind and Big Dave may be one of them but the seeds of discontent run deep and old wounds were opened by this thread. It is most unfortunate but Cam was completely correct in noting that if you don't like something in the LPWA you can send your grievance to the MNR, the Park or the OFAH but unless you have an awful lot of friends you can organize they won't listen. Big Dave has had the guts to take on a battle that many wouldn't touch. Many, many good people have walked away and not come back.

I am glad to hear that your son has been able to have a positive experience at the point and I can only hope there a couple of hundred more like him coming in the next few years as the current group ages and drops out of sight at the unit. What this sport needs most is a strong youth movement.

Paul
 
Archer

I stand by my comments. Big Dave's has a personal beef from sometime in the past (going back prior to the lottery issue). His comments haven't got anything to do with a beef, they are nothing but an uncalled-for malicious rant. I believe in discussions to sort things out however that is not what he is looking for. He's making himself out as a very sour man. Keep personal attacks personal and let these discussions be civil. I won't comment again on this issue as it is a dead horse.
 
I also don't know what purpose "big dave's" rant had on the original thread. I spent many Friday nights at the fire this year and never saw what he is speaking of, and never actually saw "big dave" there. Maybe he was hiding in the bushes. Who I did see there were people who volenteer at the camo days and youth hunts and fund raisers.
Constructive critisism is GREAT and needed.
"Its better to have people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Mark Twain
 
quote:
Originally posted by Old Cut LongPointer

Singlemalt;

I don't see it as a matter of "taking the bait" as it "is your post" that has prompted this diatribe. Legitmate beefs have been aired and as you are the only Executive that is willing to post on this forum {Good question; Why don't we ever hear from the President ?} you should explain either yorself and/or your Boards standing regarding such issues.(sic)

To turn tail and runaway from what may be well a controversial issue(s) is all but showing the lack of fortitude that this Association will need in the future. I for one have always looked forward to you someday taking over the reins of power( again sic) as I know you to be a compentant and reasonable man.

Please do not disappoint me;
Chris Kozak
Sustaining Member





OCLP, I don't turn tail and run.

I do do what little I can for the Unit because I love it and stores like the one from Willy and his son make me happy I am able to help. His message makes me wish I could do more.

However, I did not sign on to play Dr. Phil for sad and bitter people looking for a fight and I don't intend to start.
 
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