lets find theses people

[Balzdown]

Sorry Woodsman....maybe I'm taking you a bit literally here but you were looking for examples when Pierre Trudeau made decisions that had anything to do with our property and defence rights and I provided a very specific example

Please read the following from the War Measures Act and familiarize yourself with sections a,b and and especially f


6. The Governor in Council shall have power to do and authorize such acts and things, and to make from time to time such orders and regulations................extend to all matters coming within the classes of subjects hereinafter enumerated, that is to say:-

(a) censorship and the control and suppression of publications, writings, maps, plans, photographs, communications and means of communication;
(b) arrest, detention, exclusion and deportation;
(c) control of the harbours, ports and territorial waters of Canada and the movements of vessels;
(d) transportation by land, air, or water and the control of the transport of persons and things;
(e) trading, exportation, importation, production and manufacture;
(f) appropriation, control, forfeiture and disposition of property and of the use thereof.


I cant think of anything a sitting government could do to effect your property and defence rights more. I know it was only temporary ( 2 days I believe) and I know it doesnt really effect our lives today but it shows Mr. Trudeaus complete disregard for civil liberties and personal freedoms.

If this isn't enough google bill C150 which made firearms owners classify their guns into 3 categories and placing handguns into a restricted category. I believe one could argue that this made it a little harder to protect our property and defend ourselves.


Sorry to hear about Angling Outfitters . Lets all spend a little extra there next season to help them out. (or Josh could just wait for Justin Trudeau to take some money from the richest 1% and re-distribute it to him)

 

[Woodsman]

As a former soldier I just may be a little more informed about the War Measures Act than you think.
It is only applied during times of war or during extreme situations of a limited time. It had no effect on your rights to protect yourself in your home.
As for Bill C 150 it was an omnibus Bill which did far more than classify various weapons.
One could argue under the Conservatives we were in far worse of a position in respect to classifying weapons as the Conservatives gave the power to the RCMP to unilaterally classify weapons as they seen fit without any parliamentary oversight such a a vote in parliament.

 

[Balzdown]

I apologize Woodsman....you are right....giving the police and military absolutle authourity to enter a Canadian citizens home and seize whatever they want and detain whomever they choose without a warrant or trial has absolutely no effect on a persons ability to defend their home and this decision would provide no insight towards a sitting governments view of personal rights and freedoms nor a nations long term views about individual liberties....again I do apologize Trudeau was the greatest Prime Minister ever, I'm sure his son will be just a good.

on a serious and very sincere note Thanks for your service to our country.

 

[Rankulizer82]

Ok so heres a little story... so my lil bro who Is 30 and around 225 lbs works in TO and was stayin at his ladys place in london woke up at 3:00 am to make a coffee. He looks out the window of her kitchen out to the parking lot and sees his interior light turn on in his suv. He goes into ninja mode ,slipps his shoes on, and creeps up behind the person who is on their knees on the driver side rifling through his center console. He reached around real fast grabbed the person by the face while sayin "wrong fu#@ing car bud! " and continued to beat the crap out of this guy while preachin how terrible he is at being a thief. Befor letting the crook go he thinks what did he take? So he starts draggin the guy back over to his vehicle to check what was missing and buddy thinks my brother is gonna slam his head in the car door and starts screaming for his life so loud that most of the complex wakes up and someone had called police. After my bro sees the punk had nothing he let him run away right befor the cops got there. Tje police find a bottle of cologne a screwdriver and a pocket knife on the ground where my bro beat this dude. The police asked why he let him go and my brother replied " I think I ruffed him up enough" the police then gave my brother the screwdriver and the cologne and my brother went to work,They kept the blade. He is now pretty much the hero of his girl friends apartment complex since most people had came out to see the rukus and this punk had hit many other vehicles and even stolen from peoples porchs. Just a little happy ending BnE attempt story i thought you might enjoy. Happy Holidays and lock your doors in your cars :-D

 

[Woodsman]

I apologize Woodsman....you are right....giving the police and military absolutle authourity to enter a Canadian citizens home and seize whatever they want and detain whomever they choose without a warrant or trial has absolutely no effect on a persons ability to defend their home and this decision

Now your talking about the actual wording of the law and not about how it was applied.
The law as written was enacted in 22 August 1914.
This was during Robert Borden's term as Prime Minister and a Conservative.
It was enacted on 5 Oct 1970 in response to the kidnapping of two officials by the FLQ and targeted FLQ members.
Both the British Trade Commissioner in Montréal and the Federal Minister of Immigration and Minister of Labour were kidnapped.
It had nothing to due with the general public's rights to defend their personal property but was used to deal with domestic terrorism.
Not saying in hindsight it was the best approach at the time but when terrorism is being faced sometimes quick decisions are made.
No where in the law did the War Measures Act affect your rights as they are today to defend yourself or property.
The two other times the War Measure Act was applied was during both world wars.
It was used to inter many individuals from countries we were at war with.
This happened once under a Conservative government and once under a Liberal government.
To use the War Measure Act to state Trudeau undermined your rights to self protection doesn't measure up when you take into consideration the Acts history and it's implementations.

 

[Wave Runner]

One could argue under the Conservatives we were in far worse of a position in respect to classifying weapons as the Conservatives gave the power to the RCMP to unilaterally classify weapons as they seen fit without any parliamentary oversight such a a vote in parliament.

That statement is factually incorrect @Woodsman. The Conservatives actually rescinded the right of the RCMP to unilaterally classify weapons as they seen fit without any parliamentary oversight. Bill C-42 brought new restrictions on the ability of the RCMP to reclassify firearms. The RCMP was abusing their power by using their discretion any way they saw fit to make arbitrary rulings, contrary both to the evidence and the clearly written guidelines making law-abiding gun owners criminals overnight simply by the stroke of a pen. As for Bill C 150, your right it was an omnibus Bill which did far more than classify various weapons. Most of which the repercussions are still tearing down the moral fabric of our society at an alarming rate.

 

[Woodsman]

Bill C 42 passed in Apr 2015 after how many years in power for the Conservatives? Actually over 9 years.
Yes they changed it after allowing the RCMP to run without direction for many years under Conservative rule.
As for Bill C 150 "Most of which the repercussions are still tearing down the moral fabric of our society at an alarming rate." what specifically are you referring to Wave Runner? Or don't you have the guts to spell it out?

 

[HTHM]

[QUOTE="
As for Bill C 150 "Most of which the repercussions are still tearing down the moral fabric of our society at an alarming rate." what specifically are you referring to Wave Runner? Or don't you have the guts to spell it out?[/QUOTE]

Or conversely, What are you referring to? Ideally I would like to see a specific example if possible. Thanks for your input to this discussion.

 

[Bassassin]

How much "stuff" can be thieved from your property before you have the right to kill the criminal, $500.00, $5000.00, $50,000.00. I've been around a while and have many yarns about thieves and victims. It was a long time ago but I remember like it was yesterday the tragedy that happened in the mid 70's in my neighbourhood in Hamilton. An Italian immigrant that lived in the shadows of the old Ivor Wynne stadium took the law into his own hands, the old country way. He was a hard working man and like most in the old neighbourhood had a pristine vegetable garden that he was very proud of. Every morning before he headed to the mill he checked on the garden and gave it a good watering in the bright east sun. He noticed some of his prize tomatoes were gone. This went on for a few days. One humid summers night he sat himself in a chair in the corner of the yard in a dark area where he couldn't be seen. The still night was broken by the sound of whispers and the sound of someone climbing over the old rickety wooden fence. He shot twice hitting the 15 year old squarely in the back with the full force of the point blank blast of his 12 gauge near severing the body in half. He was found not guilty in the trial that followed other than discharging a firearm within city limits. The criminal happened to be the son of a long time friend and neighbour. The trial evidence showed the teen had overheard his mother say she wished she could get some seeds for these tomatoes and the friend of the deceased teen said they were getting the tomatoes for their mom's gardens and they were hungry.

How a fishing forum can go from a theft of a few thousand dollars from an insured business to protecting ones property and the War Measures act is beyond me. You want my stuff? Here I'll show you where it is. There are many things we can do to deter theft. Trying to beat someone to a pulp may just get your family killed.

So I ask again, how much "stuff" can someone steal before I can kill them?

 

[Woodsman]

How much "stuff" can be thieved from your property before you have the right to kill the criminal, $500.00, $5000.00, $50,000.00.

So I ask again, how much "stuff" can someone steal before I can kill them?

Under Canadian law there is no amount that will justify the use of deadly force.
Only allowable use of deadly force is in defence of your life in situations where there are no other options. Even then you can expect lots of grief from the law enforcement system.

 

[Woodsman]

Or conversely, What are you referring to? Ideally I would like to see a specific example if possible. Thanks for your input to this discussion.

Bill C-150 did not just regulate gun possession but also decriminalized homosexuality, legalized abortion and contraception, regulated lotteries, drinking and driving offences, harassing phone calls, misleading advertising and cruelty to animals.
Was was interested in Wave Runners thoughts on what "repercussions are still tearing down the moral fabric of our society at an alarming rate".

 

[Balzdown]

Well said "whatsthepoint" There is no amount of stuff that justifies taking someones life.
I dont believe that anyone on this sight would argue that the thieves in the fishing store incident deserved to be shot...just maybe they would have thought twice about robbing the place if there was someone inside with a viable means of protecting themselves. ie (a baseball bat, a big dog, mace, a firearm) and in the worst case scenario incident they had a government that wouldnt prosecute them if they used these means to protect their personal safety (not their meaningless belongings)

and personally I love when these "fishing forum" discussions turn to more serious in depth issues where we can express opinions and ideas as a community. I know there are poitical forums out there that we could go to but I want to see these issues through the eyes of outdoorsman from southwestern Ontario. we just need to respect each others views and keep it civil.

 

[Wave Runner]

@Woodsman said...
As for Bill C 150 "Most of which the repercussions are still tearing down the moral fabric of our society at an alarming rate." what specifically are you referring to Wave Runner? Or don't you have the guts to spell it out?

@ HTHM said... Or conversely, What are you referring to? Ideally I would like to see a specific example if possible. Thanks for your input to this discussion.

To be specific, the 2 sections of Bill C-150 I'm referring to are the legalization of sodomy and the wanton slaughter of the unborn through abortion. Trudeau Sr. doesn't bear the full guilt of this alone as corrupt governments after him also added more legislation to compound this great wrong. But Trudeau Sr.'s government certainly bears full responsibility for opening Pandora's Box in the first place allowing it to digress to the pathetic point it has now reached. Where our society can no longer recognise a definitive moral line between what's right and what's wrong.... what's right in our own minds has become the new norm.

Legalization may pacify one's conscience of guilt but will never justify or make right something that is clearly wrong. Bill C-150 also gave rights to animals while taking away every single basic right including the sanctity of life from a living human being. The security of a child within the mother's womb was grossly violated by this bill allowing it to become a horrendous tomb of death while cruelty to animals became a criminal offense. Now we have a self proclaimed lesbian Premier who is shoving her homosexual agenda down our children's throats through a disgusting so-called "alternative lifestyle" curriculum in our schools.

Yes @Woodsman I do have the guts to spell it out and I'm sure it will create a firestorm among the far left Liberal hordes because I had the audacity to do just that. It will probably result in @stomp locking this thread, however you did sarcastically ask the question and I gave my answer.

 

[Bassassin]

In my experience when the Right lobs salvos over the centre line to the Left and vice versa is gets so loud nothing can be heard from either side. Neither common sense nor morality can be legislated by any Government.

 

[Wave Runner]

In my experience when the Right lobs salvos over the centre line to the Left and vice versa is gets so loud nothing can be heard from either side. Neither common sense nor morality can be legislated by any Government.

Your right about the common sense because governments never seem to use it in anything they do. Your also right again that no government can legislate morality. However, they sure don't seem to have any difficulty legislating immorality do they?

 

[Bassassin]

One mans morality is another's immorality. Religions are strife with that theme throughout history and never as relative to our daily lives today since the Christian Crusades throughout Europe and The Middle East.

Here's a thread that has gone 180 degrees. We need some ice or must get the boats out.

 

[BillpStT]

We live in one of the greatest countries in the world your opinions are yours and obviously heartfelt.... I hope you find peace. Most of us have enough on our plate defining our own morality....let alone what is best for others. It's a crazy world alright, I'm just glad to be a Canadian that has the freedom to make decisions and live a wonderful happy life. We will leave this place better than we got it.

 

[Bassassin]

Well said Bill. Yea I struggle with my own morality regularly, being raised RC will do that. I wished I had the conviction and unwavering confidence some people have in their own lives in order to preach to others how they should live theirs. Canada IS the absolute greatest county in todays world. Not so much in the previous century though.