Off Topic Fact or Fiction

[Fishermanpaul]

I honestly respect everyone’s opinion and just tried to stick to my side to keep the debate going, it’s a hard topic to judge, I think there’s a ton of good points… and to some degree I was also being silly and playing along with my side (example with saying the seagulls could make them pop, you can’t be too serious) but in all honestly I’m just arguing the opposite side. I don’t know everything, no one does right. I simply was mentioning a lot of fish die from fishing deep, other than that, who really knows the numbers, sizes etc. you just have to keep in mind that ripping them out of 30 + ft of water has a chance of killing the fish, so you should keep that in your mind.. just because we have millions of walleye doesn’t mean we need to disrespect our resource

 

[Derkd9]

I honestly respect everyone’s opinion and just tried to stick to my side to keep the debate going, it’s a hard topic to judge, I think there’s a ton of good points… and to some degree I was also being silly and playing along with my side (example with saying the seagulls could make them pop, you can’t be too serious) but in all honestly I’m just arguing the opposite side. I don’t know everything, no one does right. I simply was mentioning a lot of fish die from fishing deep, other than that, who really knows the numbers, sizes etc. you just have to keep in mind that ripping them out of 30 + ft of water has a chance of killing the fish, so you should keep that in your mind.. just because we have millions of walleye doesn’t mean we need to disrespect our resource

For sure.. I may toss back smalls
But one thing I won’t do is trade up out of the live well, in my opinion that is disrespecting the resource.. it doesn’t take long for them to die in there

 

[Octavius Brine]

This is the best link I can find on the topic.

Understanding Barotrauma | North Dakota Game and Fish

Anglers presume the fish they release survive, but those that suffer trauma from being caught from deep water many times don’t make it.

gf.nd.gov

Like others, I throw back some little ones that seem healthy. I handle them quickly and they seem to fare well at least until they’re out of sight.

But it’s good to know, some fish can’t handle this, and after about 33 feet the risks begin growing.

There are way too many factors to consider to have a hard rule, so just look for blood, bladder, bulging eyes and make the call.

The smalls can be delicious too, pretend they’re perch and suddenly they’re monsters

 

[King Joe]

Funny how with a size limit you have to throw it back
And if what you’re saying is correct it’s a for sure death certificate
Then the regulations is causing a waste

No waste EVEN IF the small fish, or any fish dies on release....it cycles back into the system. Nothing is lost in biological systems. If it isn't eaten as it sinks...or in its death throws....it will be eaten on the bottom...or breakdown and plants will take it up...NO waste. For sure, AND a fish biologist here...I question the data that suggests depth mortality at less than 10m...even greater especially for fish that do range depth as part of their daily movement cycles. IF, for example, we are talking about a species that lives exclusively at depth...and we haul its ass up...Houston, we may have a problem. There are so many other factors that ONE data point.

King Joe Outa Here!

 

[darton]

All I know is that last weekend I stopped counting boats when I got to 100 out of Port Glasgow. Given each boat threw back 10 small ones (Probably more) , That would be 1000 fish in one day. Surely 100 guys fishing the same area would notice a pile of white bellies floating around out there ! I have the same train of thought that King Joe has, nothing gets wasted.

 

[Crestliner16]

Yeah, nothing is wasted in the sense that 100% of the nutrients are recycled, but it’s still one less walleye in the ecosystem. Otherwise, any C&R concerns about fish care and survival would be moot, just slit the throat and chuck them over the side (no waste).

There’s no doubt that walleye can be distressed/injured/killed by barotrauma. How it translates into survival rates for different fishing scenarios is less certain and is confounded by other factors. Seems like the studies and anecdotes land around 30 ft as the depth at which things start to go south in terms of barotrauma, and logic dictates that the deeper you go, the greater the impact. Small fish are better able to recover than large ones, and immediate release (vs. holding in a livewell) increases odds of survival. For fish that can’t vent their swim bladders (incl. walleye, bass, perch), it’s not clear that bringing the fish up slowly from depth actually helps, and it may well make things worse – it takes much longer than the timeframe of reeling in the fish for the gas exchange that manages their swim bladder volume to occur. For fish like lakers, which can vent their swim bladders, a slow rise from depth might be beneficial as there’s more opportunity to ‘burp’ gas before over-inflation.

The OP asks about releasing fish brought up from 60 ft. Rising from 60 ft to surface will cause the walleye’s swim bladder, essentially a balloon inside their gut cavity, to roughly triple in volume. Again, I can’t put a survival % number on that, but it’s not a good thing. Based on what I’ve read and what I’m comfortable with, I aim to not C&R below about 30 ft. To each their own. Either way I think there’s little risk of rec. fishing impacting current Erie walleye populations.

 

[Elmerfudd]

My cottage has a private beach a few hundred yards in diameter. Weekly we have to do the shovel walk to pick up dead sheephead - the majority are sheephead, also some carp and then quite a few smallmouth bass including some dandys show up as well. Particularly after the opener. Ive been told the sheephead are the bycatch the commercials throw back but I cant confirm that. Could be some truth to it based on the number that show up sometimes. I've never found a dead walleye on the beach. And yes the walleyes are there. So either the seagulls are super picky about what species of fish they eat or maybe this isnt the issue we think it is. Either way it never hurts to handle fish we intend to release with care. The last couple weeks or so Ive been fishing in that 60' plus deep water but only fishing the upper 25' or so. The smalls Ive released shot off like a cannon when they hit the water.

 

[DaveJ]

So...what happens with the smalls that get into commercial nets? The walleye nets are probably too big to catch them, but the perch nets likely get some...even though the perch nets are on the bottom. Do they go towards the commercial fishermans quota or do they get thrown overboard? They would be dead at that point.

 

[G.Mech]

So...what happens with the smalls that get into commercial nets? The walleye nets are probably too big to catch them, but the perch nets likely get some...even though the perch nets are on the bottom. Do they go towards the commercial fishermans quota or do they get thrown overboard? They would be dead at that point.

They are allowed to sell by-catch as long as they have quota for that species. Otherwise, if the fish cannot be released unharmed they are turned over to the OMNR&F at the dock. That said, there aren't a lot of smalleyes spending much time down that deep, the water is too cold for them down there and they prefer the warmer water above. They may dive down into the cold for short durations to feed but generally hang out above the thermocline where they enjoy the 65°+ water. This is why the walleye nets are suspended and the perch nets are on bottom.

 

[Derkd9]

So...what happens with the smalls that get into commercial nets? The walleye nets are probably too big to catch them, but the perch nets likely get some...even though the perch nets are on the bottom. Do they go towards the commercial fishermans quota or do they get thrown overboard? They would be dead at that point.

They get tossed and wasted

 

[Derkd9]

They are allowed to sell by-catch as long as they have quota for that species. Otherwise, if the fish cannot be released unharmed they are turned over to the OMNR&F at the dock. That said, there aren't a lot of smalleyes spending much time down that deep, the water is too cold for them down there and they prefer the warmer water above. They may dive down into the cold for short durations to feed but generally hang out above the thermocline where they enjoy the 65°+ water. This is why the walleye nets are suspended and the perch nets are on bottom.

Bottom temp in 30ft -40ft of water isn’t that cold

 

[G.Mech]

Bottom temp in 30ft -40ft of water isn’t that cold

Agreed, the thermocline is around 40-45' right now out in the deeper water. Above that the water is in the low 70's and below that it's in the 50's, not preferred temp for walleye but the perch like it.

 

[Joey D]

They get tossed and wasted

No they don't. Commercial fish are paid by the pound. Only the jumbo fish are worth a little less than the rest of the walleye (~ $0.25 less a pound). We keep and get paid for all of them.

 

[Derkd9]

No they don't. Commercial fish are paid by the pound. Only the jumbo fish are worth a little less than the rest of the walleye (~ $0.25 less a pound). We keep and get paid for all of them.

You speak for every boat?

 

[Joey D]

You speak for every boat?

No, I do not. I would confidently say that is not a common practice in the lake Erie commercial fishery. Those fish, even the small ones, are quite valuable.

 

[Derkd9]

No, I do not. I would confidently say that is not a common practice in the lake Erie commercial fishery. Those fish, even the small ones, are quite valuable.

what about dead ones that get caught up in the perch nets.
sell those too?
I've also never seen a 10-12" walleye fillet at any fish market anywhere ever.. but whatever. it is what it is... I realize nothing can be done about it, no need to lie

 

[Joey D]

what about dead ones that get caught up in the perch nets.
sell those too?
I've also never seen a 10-12" walleye fillet at any fish market anywhere ever.. but whatever. it is what it is... I realize nothing can be done about it, no need to lie

Actually all the fish we sell are dead. I don't think I've ever seen a live fish market, but whatever. I can clearly see you know more about the lake, the fishery and the fish than most.

No need to be so friendly about it! Have a great day.

 

[Derkd9]

Actually all the fish we sell are dead. I don't think I've ever seen a live fish market, but whatever. I can clearly see you know more about the lake, the fishery and the fish than most.

No need to be so friendly about it! Have a great day.

I didn’t say I know everything you dip.
I just have no reason to believe you over my source

 

[Joey D]

I didn’t say I know everything you dip.
I just have no reason to believe you over my source

 

[G.Mech]

No they don't. Commercial fish are paid by the pound. Only the jumbo fish are worth a little less than the rest of the walleye (~ $0.25 less a pound). We keep and get paid for all of them.

Just out of curiosity, how deep are you setting perch nets right now ? I presume it's in the colder water right?