Bluff Bar Selected Harvest Round II.

[DST]

Bowfin yearlings might add another forage base to support the aggressive feeding of the fish we all love to catch. Nature has a way of working things out. Or we could lobby the MNR to do a survey and create more useless reports so it takes money away from worthwhile programs. Their is the a guy on the pier in Port Dover who is very good at doing that.

 

[Deleted member 7631]

@DST, Did you see that research boat in Dover a couple of years ago. Twice the size of a fish tug. Front end double decker living quarters. The science guys live on that boat for week at a time doing water studies all along the Erie to St Clair water columns. The algae research that did the massive fish kill a few years back. - west end of Lake Erie. It could have ties to the Huron manures hitting fields and river systems hard every spring. They are connecting the dots. - I find that useful work.

Sure bowfin yearlings are forage for all aggressive feeding fish. Its just a matter of qty and balance in nature. All I am saying is we caught a bowfin in cold deep water. Thats new to me. I've been fishing Erie for 47 years. One time odd occurrence - we shall see. I hear more being caught in Dover and inner bay. Some one mentioned 3 in one day.

We'll keep an eye on it.

 

[DST]

I agree that is very useful work and and happy to support that with our license fees. They have a lot of well educated very committed people. I did not mean any disrespect to the MNR with my comment.

 

[Zosk]

It appears to me humans are the issue, not the bowfin.

 

[Deleted member 7631]

@Zosk, Probably. At the root cause of it all. That algae bloom changes things. Not to mention global warming. ;-)

 

[live2fish]

@liv2fish, I fully respect all sports fish. Been doing so since 1970. That said, there are times where over population of sheep head can be an issue. In the 80s with long point salmon boom - we took shepherd home and used them purposefully as fertilizer. No different than misners fish cleaning in Dover did with those that hit the nets. Yes I shovelled fish on one of those tugs as a summer job one year. Fishing cleaning left overs and "garbage fish" went into the "meal" for fertilizer.

Lets consider the long point deer "cull" for lime disease and the ministry burning hides to control it. Deer are native animals - but those deer have bigger problem than most. I considered that Bowfin on the increase may be a concern. I don't know? I do know that is the first in 40 years catching a bowfin on a lure - not bait tipped very odd. Also in an area where the water is cold seems outside their natural habitats. Its for these reasons - I suggest the potential of culling them. Is there an impact of the perch fishery if bowfins population explodes? For the past two years out of Port Bruce - I've hit schools of sheep head so thick - I stop down rigging and moved to new locations. If you can hit 10 sheep running one rigger rod in an hour. That's too many.

To be clear I have the upmost respect for the sports fishery. Love the sport. Hate invasive species and always on the alert for changes in the fishery. Really hope those Asian Carp stay away from Canada's great waterways.

I took fish and wildlife in college, at Fleming. The deer cull of the 80's wasn't due to ticks! It was due entirely to the survival of the entire population. When there are too many deer in a deer yard over the winter they WILL eat all the browse available. They will then starve. If they leave the yard they burn too many calories in the deep snow. We did field studied and deer browse studies that get used by the MNR to decide the deer numbers that can be harvested. So again, it was NOTHING to do with ticks or lime disease at all. It was entirely done to prevent the herd from collapsing. I seen pics of the deer culled in the 80's, they had no meat on them. Few yrs after the last cull, they obtained deer to see if they were finally putting on mass. And they were.

Bowfin are NOT over populated!

 

[Deleted member 7631]

@live2fish You will find this interesting.

https://longpointbiosphere.com/down...g-Point-National-Wildlife-Area.compressed.pdf

I was part of the cobra club who boated out and stayed on the inland island inside of bluff bar -- before that area became a sanctuary. Long Point has always been an interest of mine. Look at page 20 and when the "new tick" a few pages later was determined in this management plan. Perhaps you know why the deer hides were not allowed to be kept by the culling hunters. MNO incinerated them. I thought that was new tick related? Later on lime disease travelled via ticks. - I would have to research it a bit more for certainty.

At any rate, the bowfin (dog fish we call them in 80s) are more frequent now than I recall. Its the first time I caught one on a spoon without bait on it in cold water. So they are aggressive this year. More reports of multiple catches in a day is new too.

We are just beginning to understand the changes this algae bloom caused on species migration from West to East seasonally.

Lets leave it to the scientists to advise. In the meantime do what you feel is right.

Bowfin aren't endangered - that is for certain.

 

[Nammer.C]

@Nammer.C , it seems like I started a worthy debate here.

Crappie, perch, Bass, pike, walleye (pickerel), trout, salmon, even sunfish - all worthy meals. So now consider the population of sheephead and bowfin quadruples. How does it impact the meal worthy fish? How would that impact the recreational sport fishing enjoyment? If I catch a bowfin again in 16 foot cold water. -- it's coming home and will be used purposefully. It's not a protected species right? No limit on them either. If I caught it near a marsh or warmer water 8 feet or less -- sure release it. That's where they are supposed to be.

Just offering a full perspective.

I have no scientific backing on this, but just what I've observed in the last 2 decades of fishing Lake Simcoe. Bowfin exist there in large numbers. I've caught them in 2 to 4 fow in amongst pencil reeds, in 15 fow in cabbage weeds, and in 40 fow in sparsely vegetated bottom. The only similarities in where, when and what I've caught them on, is there is some sort of vegetation in the area. I think it's assumed they are a warm water species because they're typically found in swampy back bays where they thrive in low oxygen environments. In reality, they're voracious predators that could easily chase down crank baits and spoons (I've caught a good number on them) in relatively cool waters.

In regards to your concern about the population of meal worthy fish, I don't think the impact is as large as you would think. Bow fin are fairly common in Lake Simcoe but so are Lake trout, whitefish, Bass and of course, perch. I can't say there has been a correlation between the number of bowfin I would catch in a year and an increase or decrease in the number of other fish I've caught. If anything, I've noticed as the number of smaller pike I've caught increased, other fish in that general area has decreased. Funny enough, a good number of bowfin I've caught were caught while fishing for Bass or pike.

Again, just my observations, but I don't know anyone other than myself and some friends I've taken out that's gone out fishing for bowfin just for a good fight.

 

[rastam4n]

Perch fished the the inner and outer bay for over 60 yrs. It was rare to catch a ‘dog fish’. The last couple of years I have caught many. They are a hard fighter and tough as nails,and really put pressure on the perch. As far as the question “can you eat them?”, depends how hungry you are.

Exactly, "DogFish" that is what we have called them till now I guess....

 

[Deleted member 7631]

@Nammer.C,

I have less than 100 hr fishing time on lake Simcoe - mostly ice fishing. I have thousands of hours down rigging Lake O, Erie, Huron doing to Salmon tournament tours in the 80's. Pound for pound best sport fish was the Skamania steelhead a stocked breed. We would catch an occasional one off Long Point.

Anyways with all that rigger time -we never once caught a bowfin while fishing pickerel/trout/Salmon/sheephead. I have caught a perch off the rigger last year. That was a first.

My curiosity is more the algae bloom effects from a few years ago in the West end of Erie and its impact on "garbage fish" moving to the East in numbers. -- Those sheep head schools last summer were thick east of Port Bruce in 55 FOW (3rd windmill down). Now after catching two "dog fish" Bowfins - at Bluff bar on artificial's while pike/perch fishing has us wondering if they too are moving in from the West in higher concentrations?

The bluffs bowfin are feeding on perch, sunfish, and other stuff hard to make out. Looking at the flesh -- I would have to be very hungry to consider eating it. Let's call it "bone meal". Misners in Dover would back in the 80's. Are commercial tugs catching bowfins in their nets? I never saw one the summer I shovelled fish. Yet if in 40 FOW you would get them in those nets.

Pike would help control the population of Bowfin. So a selected harvest of Pike is important. Keep a few BBQ beauties ( 21 to 25 inches). Everything else release IMO. There is a healthy population of pike in Erie. Letting the huge and smalls go will only help keep bowfin in check.

The link I provided in earlier post - s a great history of Long Point more that 50 pages in a condensed format. For those interested. Skim through it.

Cheers,

 

[live2fish]

I have no scientific backing on this, but just what I've observed in the last 2 decades of fishing Lake Simcoe. Bowfin exist there in large numbers. I've caught them in 2 to 4 fow in amongst pencil reeds, in 15 fow in cabbage weeds, and in 40 fow in sparsely vegetated bottom. The only similarities in where, when and what I've caught them on, is there is some sort of vegetation in the area. I think it's assumed they are a warm water species because they're typically found in swampy back bays where they thrive in low oxygen environments. In reality, they're voracious predators that could easily chase down crank baits and spoons (I've caught a good number on them) in relatively cool waters.

In regards to your concern about the population of meal worthy fish, I don't think the impact is as large as you would think. Bow fin are fairly common in Lake Simcoe but so are Lake trout, whitefish, Bass and of course, perch. I can't say there has been a correlation between the number of bowfin I would catch in a year and an increase or decrease in the number of other fish I've caught. If anything, I've noticed as the number of smaller pike I've caught increased, other fish in that general area has decreased. Funny enough, a good number of bowfin I've caught were caught while fishing for Bass or pike.

Again, just my observations, but I don't know anyone other than myself and some friends I've taken out that's gone out fishing for bowfin just for a good fight.

The bowfin are spring spawners and group up in the shallow vegetation. Look on YouTube for Seabass hrs on Simcoe and has lots of good videos and some he targets bowfin sightfishing.

 

[Nammer.C]

@BayRunner16,

Your theory of "garbage fish" moving east could have some merit. It seems like most algae blooms stay west of Erieau for the most part, but in heavy blooms, will stretch to Port Glagow/Port Stanley. Traveling 100km over the course of a few years isn't that far fetched.

I've actually done some reading into bowfin as I've sport fished for them, but haven't done any reasearch into them. From what I've read, most scientists agree that bowfin are a sign of a good ecosystem. The population typically rise and fall with the abundance of adaquate forage. So in healthier waters, more bowfin can survive, in areas with less food, fewer. It's similar to the population of owls and foxes during the rise and fall of lemming populations. There was also a mid-80's study done in Minnesota where bowfin were introduced into a lake to control bluegill numbers. It was found that after continual introduction stopped, their numbers quickly declined.

In regards to whether or not they negatively impact the more desirable fish populations, it's up for debate. As @live2fish mentioned, the research into how they impact sportfish populations plays out very much like the musky vs walleye debates

 

[Nammer.C]

The bowfin are spring spawners and group up in the shallow vegetation. Look on YouTube for Seabass hrs on Simcoe and has lots of good videos and some he targets bowfin sightfishing.

I'll take a look at the videos. They are definitely in the back bays and slower rivers in the spring. If I'm going to be honest, most of the times where I've actively fished for them didn't start out as a mission for bowfin. Rather, we were at risk of getting skunked crappie or pike fishing, and decided we may as well have some fun bowfin fishing as they inhabit similar waters. The fight of a 4+lb specimen isn't exactly dull either. It's neat seeing a log, buried in the weed bed shot up and inhale a lure passing by

 

[Deleted member 7631]

@Nammer.C , Back in the 80s courtright bay inside of bluff bar - we would drift cast and stop counting hammer handle sized pike releases after 20 or more. Can't do that anymore! We have three common terms heard in the bay for pike. Hammer handles, axe handles, and logs. I've never heard of bowfin defined as a log - until your post lol. I have had a small Williams wobbler bent 30 degree and their cheap hooks flattened by a 12 lb log (pike). Courtright bay has shallowed out and now seems even the perch move out early from those back bays.

I am certain the sheephead, trout, all species -- pushed down lake to better water the past couple of years. The sheep head in 40 FOW east of Port Bruce the third wind mill area. Catching them trolling at 3 MPH steadily is odd. Usually you get them going 2.5 MHP. I could fill a garbage pail full them it I want to target them in one day with one pole running - no live bait.

Bowfin in 16 FOW at bluff bar are feeding on the perch. Confirmed that this week. The one from the inner bay in 4 FOW was feeding sunfish (bluegill) and other stuff not recognizable. - leeches maybe. Bowfins are easy to catch with bait. harder on lures especially suspended. Bottom dragging is more usual. So this why is believe something has made them more aggressive this year. Likely population based.

All we can do is keep an eye on it and try to understand them better. Anyone catches one on a down rigger in deep water over 40FOW. Please post that area. Appreciated.