.50 cal muzzleloader deer hunting ammunition

[anonymoose]

I shot 90gr black powder with the no 11 caps and 240gr XTP's for years and killed a lot of deer with those. I switched a couple of years ago to the Pyrodex RS which is a powder that will ignite for the No 11 caps, unlike the pellets. Now I'm shooting the 300gr XTP's with 100gr Pyrodex RS. I'd rather be shooting Blackhorn 209, if I had a 209 primer gun or better yet smokeless powder out of one of those Savage 10ML-II smokeless rated muzzleloaders.

I killed 2 more deer with my old muzzleloader this year so I'm not sure why I'm trying to fix something that isn't broken.

 

[Chipper1]

Chipper everyone is entitled to their opinion. I shot two adult deer within minutes of each other in the first
hunt using the 270 gr platinum series, with 90 grains of Triple 7 pellets. One went 30 feet and the other went 30 yards.

Did you hit those deer in the ribs or shoulder?

Last week in snow I tracked 3 does that were hit in the shoulder with those bullets.. one of them we recovered.. 2 others turned out to be 3 legged coyote food. All 3 we tracked over a mile.. a bullet made for deer should pass thru a shoulder no problem,, that’s a common aiming point,

 

[Noth n yet]

Found the same thing that xtp were blowing up on any hard bone just ahead up they were designed for pistols I switched to sst nomore problem

 

[mick]

hey annoymoose congrats with your hunting success with the old style muzzle loader.. nice to hear
after reading your reply what also stood out to me was.. and just to mention and share.. with my several years of experience with the old musket style side ignition with No 11 cap and nipple ..after experiencing a missfire in average hunting conditions that are usually moist and damp first week of Nov...ya I had just one shot missfire that cost me a buck with its head down taking a drink of water in catfish creek..ya I scrambled for another cap but to late as he heard the cap go off even thou I was on the otherside with a light sound of rapids in bewteen ...and ya the second cap and the load fired..anyway..

the next pre season I switched the No 11 cap & nipple converting over to the hotter musket cap ignition..the nipple thread is same standard size..so it was a matter of buying a musket cap nipple and a tin of musket caps..The musket was a brand new in 1988 the T/C renegade hunter...beauty looking musket and took my first deer/buck that season..A collector and hunter with muskets I personally know bought it this year... its been years that I switched to the modern inline 209 shotgun primer ignition thus my T/C bone collector & leopold scope..

 

[anonymoose]

@mick I've been shooting this gun since I bought it in 1998 and it has killed over 20 deer.

I did have one missfire, in 2018 I believe. It had been a couple of rainy days since I had fired the gun and it was the last hunt of the season. As dark was approaching, I heard a noise in behind me. Sure enough, a buck was passing downwind of me and caught my scent and stopped. I spun around but couldn't get him in the crosshairs before he bolted. As last light came, I tried to fire the gun since I'd need to clean it, and the cap fired but the powder wouldn't. I think it fired after the third cap but I didn't feel so bad for not getting that buck in the crosshairs, since the gun wouldn't have fired anyway!

I do have a "magnum nipple" which might be what you're describing as a musket nipple. I've never bothered to try it.

I also have an old side hammer TC White Mountain. I bought it off of a friend who killed countless deer with it shortly before he passed. I always bring it to camp as a backup, but have never needed it. It is a great gun to carry with a short barrel but I just can't get it to group as well as my other gun.

 

[mick]

theres a photo comparison below with the No 11 cap & nipple and the larger hotter musket cap & nipple...I know the T/C white mountain a friend bought a brand new one...ya its a carbine that come out after mine..which is also a carbine..
My old musket load was a 350 grain lubed maxi ball and 90 grains of double FFg loose powder...
your storys are way better then mine..lol
and ya if its not broke don't fix it..

 

[mick]

Hey @anonymoose I just wondered what brand and model is your old muzzleloader..

 

[anonymoose]

@mick is a gun from 1998 old? Hahaha... It is a TC Black Diamond. It is a straight shooter and has always shot better than its owner.

I think we are talking about the same thing. Here's some that a buddy gave me. They are probably 20 years old so I don't know how good they would be. I like to throw out my caps after a couple of seasons to make sure they are fresh and reliable. I don't really target shoot. If anyone could use them come and get them.

 

[mick]

The year 1998 and your inline is not that old...can you change your Black diamond over to 209 shot primer ignition..I would think T/C would offer a kit for that..
I bought the same style inline.. in a traditions model buck hunter pro..I bought the 209 primer kit for it on the spot and had it installed in the shop called Elis gun shop back then in simcoe.. I also bought a pump shotgun and walked out with both..
Removing first the bolt and then the breech plug on mine was a tedious job..

It was a good shooter and took several deer and my biggest buck

I mounted a 1X4 scope on day one..my load was 100 grain 2X50 pyrodex pellets and a 300 grain XTP..I remember I was fed up with the sabots trying to many and finally found and ordered the crushed rib sabots..what a difference..

 

[mick]

heres a good read from ChuckHawks.com you can google

So, You Want to Buy an In-line?
A Short History of Modern In-line Design

 

[Tyee]

Savage 10ML2 smokeless. 250gr XTP with 42.5gr, SR4759. Gives around 2300fps and deadly on deer. Many have fallen to this combo. My recovered bullet yesterday weighed in at 188 grains giving me a respectable 75% weight retention. Did I mention it's dirt cheap to shoot.

 

[ch312]

Did you hit those deer in the ribs or shoulder?

Last week in snow I tracked 3 does that were hit in the shoulder with those bullets.. one of them we recovered.. 2 others turned out to be 3 legged coyote food. All 3 we tracked over a mile.. a bullet made for deer should pass thru a shoulder no problem,, that’s a common aiming point,

The majority of hunters go for the boiler room. This is the reason deer bullets are made with larger ballistic tips and/or hollowpoint cavities, there's little bone and muscle to open up rapidly in the chest.

You cannot blame poor performance on the bullets as you were aiming for heavier bone/muscle which requires a tougher bullet with less explansion, not something deer bullets are designed for.

Why are you shoulder shooting deer? It seems to be an unessesary waste of meat.

 

[DaveJ]

One thing to consider with handgun bullets in sabots is the velocities which they are made for.
45 cal handguns are usually in the 800-900fps muzzle velocity vs muzzle loaders using 150gr powder/pellets at 2000++fps muzzle. Those handgun bullets sometimes arn't constructed to handle the velocities, esp at short ranges. The hollow point styles may come apart too rapidly at short ranges...thus the recent popularity of the polymer nosed muzzle loader bullets made specifically for the new rifles and their high velocities. Same can be said for accuracy..those short fat handgun bullets arn't really meant to be going 2000fps and can really suffer from the lack of aerodynamic design needed for those velocities. We're really getting into centerfire rifle speeds here that depend on high coefficient design to stabilize a bullet esp at long ranges.
Muzzle loaders IMHO have really pushed the design envelope over the last years re high velocities and long range shooting. Most of the new rifles are touting muzzle speeds well over the 2000fps and 200 yard envelopes...some now guaranteeing 2500++ fps and 300 yard performance. We can certainly get those speeds, but to keep things in perspective, long range rifles tolerances are measured in thousands of an inch.. muzzle loaders are still a gun with shallow rifling that we shove a bullet down from the end of the barrel and hope for the best given the very "loose" design parameters.
Sometimes I think we are asking too much from a gun and bullet design. However, like any setup, I try to match it to what conditions Ill be in. I hunt out of treestands, very much like my bowhunting setups, so I aim for 100 yards, with the occasional shot to 150 yards.. If you were wanting to set up a rig for shooting beanfields and cut corn at 200 yards, pick and choose the rifle and bullet design to match the velocities and energy needed for those distances.
This is why I love muzzle loaders!

 

[anonymoose]

@DaveJ I like the phrase "know your limit and stay within it"

Personally, I'm not much of a shooter. Yeah I can plink nice groups with a bench rest, but I've never hunted deer from a bench. Standing free hand or resting on a tree, I can shoot decent groups at 100 yards. If I take into account that my heart is pumping from adrenaline, with a deer in front of me, that group is bound to get bigger. It is hard to know how big because I don't get pumped up to shoot a piece of paper, but my accuracy isn't going to get any better shooting at a deer.

At 150 or 200 yards, my free standing or leaning on a tree groups aren't great. Knowing that they will get worse looking at a deer, I choose not to shoot. For me, it isn't the rifle's capabilities that determine how far I can confidently pull on a deer, it is my own.

I have only hunted deer with a scope for the past 4 or 5 years. Up until then it was iron sites because everything I killed was within 50 yards. I decided I wanted to reach further so I scoped out my gun and figured out that 100 yds was pretty safe for me. The first deer I shot through the scope, I watched for some time before thinking "he's not coming any closer" and I pulled the trigger. I paced it off and he was 170 yards when I shot. I felt like an idiot and I liver shot the deer. He was dead within 50 yards, but I wasn't happy with myself for shooting so far and now I'm a lot more careful.

"Objects in scope are farther than they appear"

Long story short, most guns out there can shoot better than I can. I applaud those guys who are rock steady, but I think in general people push the envelope too far. "Know your limit and stay within it!" and don't forget that you will be less accurate shooting a deer than shooting paper!

 

[Tyee]

Hornady XTP muzzleloading bullet

Here is an article I came across a few years ago. The Savage ML was built around this bullet and has proven itself time and time again. I tend to stick with what works for me. I also shoot the SST ML soft tipped bullets designed for the Lever Revolution ammunition, but the XTP's are yet to let me down. Tons of fantastic bullets out there from Nosler, Barnes, Parker and Precision Rifle just to name a few. Muzzleloaders are just plain fun to shoot, even more so when you don't have to clean them every few shots just to get the bullets down the pipe.

 

[DaveJ]

Hornady XTP muzzleloading bullet

Here is an article I came across a few years ago. The Savage ML was built around this bullet and has proven itself time and time again. I tend to stick with what works for me. I also shoot the SST ML soft tipped bullets designed for the Lever Revolution ammunition, but the XTP's are yet to let me down. Tons of fantastic bullets out there from Nosler, Barnes, Parker and Precision Rifle just to name a few. Muzzleloaders are just plain fun to shoot, even more so when you don't have to clean them every few shots just to get the bullets down the pipe.

Great article. Ive shot the 300gr XTPs in a black magnum sabot for years and it has never let me down..but thats what my Knight likes to shoot. Performance wise, whatever they hit seem to go down very very quickly with minimal damage to the meat.