Off Topic Lithium deep cycle battery

@Czy_Horse... Being a retired electrician I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but Minn Kota suggests the following? I am currently using a 60 amp breaker with 15 ft. of 8 AWG wiring from two 31 series batteries to the motor plug-in on my 24 volt electric trolling motor which according to Minn Kota's chart is well within their specs. I'm a little confused so hoping you can fill me in with a little more info on the subject.

CONDUCTOR GAUGE AND CIRCUIT BREAKER SIZING TABLE​

This conductor and circuit breaker sizing table are only valid for the following assumptions:
  1. No more than 2 conductors are bundled together inside of a sheath or conduit outside of engine spaces.
  2. Each conductor has 105° C temp-rated insulation.
  3. No more than 5% voltage drop allowed at full motor power based on published product power requirements
MOTOR THRUST/MODELMAX AMP DRAWCIRCUIT BREAKERWIRE EXTENSION LENGTH
5 FT10 FT15 FT20 FT25 FT
30 lb.3050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
40 lb., 45 lb.4250 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
50 lb., 55 lb.5060 Amp @ 12 VDC8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG
70 lb.4250 Amp @ 24 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG
80 lb.5660 Amp @ 24 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG
101 lb.4650 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
Engine Mount 1015060 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
112 lb.5260 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
Engine Mount 160116(2) x 60 Amp @ 24 VDC6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG
E-Drive4050 Amp @ 48 VDC10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG
Talon Shallow Water Anchor3050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
Raptor Shallow Water Anchor7050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
NOTICE: Wire Extension Length refers to the distance from the batteries to the trolling motor leads. Consult website for available thrust options. Maximum Amp Draw values only occur intermittently during select conditions and should not be used as continuous amp load ratings.

Reference United States Code of Federal Regulations: 33 CFR 183 – Boats and Associated Equipment ABYC E-11: AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats
 
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Wave Runner said:
@Czy_Horse... Being a retired electrician I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but Minn Kota suggests the following? I am currently using a 60 amp breaker with 15 ft. of 8 AWG wiring from two 31 series batteries to the motor plug-in on my 24 volt electric trolling motor which according to Minn Kota's chart is well within their specs. I'm a little confused so hoping you can fill me in with a little more info on the subject.

CONDUCTOR GAUGE AND CIRCUIT BREAKER SIZING TABLE​

This conductor and circuit breaker sizing table are only valid for the following assumptions:
  1. No more than 2 conductors are bundled together inside of a sheath or conduit outside of engine spaces.
  2. Each conductor has 105° C temp-rated insulation.
  3. No more than 5% voltage drop allowed at full motor power based on published product power requirements
MOTOR THRUST/MODELMAX AMP DRAWCIRCUIT BREAKERWIRE EXTENSION LENGTH
5 FT10 FT15 FT20 FT25 FT
30 lb.3050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
40 lb., 45 lb.4250 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
50 lb., 55 lb.5060 Amp @ 12 VDC8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG
70 lb.4250 Amp @ 24 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG
80 lb.5660 Amp @ 24 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG
101 lb.4650 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
Engine Mount 1015060 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
112 lb.5260 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
Engine Mount 160116(2) x 60 Amp @ 24 VDC6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG
E-Drive4050 Amp @ 48 VDC10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG
Talon Shallow Water Anchor3050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
Raptor Shallow Water Anchor7050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
NOTICE: Wire Extension Length refers to the distance from the batteries to the trolling motor leads. Consult website for available thrust options. Maximum Amp Draw values only occur intermittently during select conditions and should not be used as continuous amp load ratings.

Reference United States Code of Federal Regulations: 33 CFR 183 – Boats and Associated Equipment ABYC E-11: AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats
Click to expand...
You got to much time on your hands Bob 🤣🤣
Need to go fishing
I followed the same specks only upgraded to 4 gauge on the bridge wire between battery that I got from Canadian Tire that have battery fitting on each and installed from factory
 
@Ticker... You're right I do need to get fishing. LOL! I have been working in my yard the last couple of days with this better weather we have now but for some reason it's not as fun as fishing. :p
 
If one is running a 24 volt system with 4 wires going to the plug, (the plug has the crossover), do I need to have a ground bond between the negative terminals on the batteries?
 
You can run 4 wires to the plug if you want , connect 1 negative to 1 positive together from each battery and connect 1 negative and 1 positive to plug from each battery, I think its not the rigth way to go as energy have to travel longer distance from battery 1 to battery 2 , and no you don't need to do a crossover at the batteries than
When you say plug have the crossover you mean it's built into it ? If so than I'm guessing there would be demarcation on each point and assuming it will be 4 point where you connect each wire , and no in that case don't need to crossover at battery
 
3 to 4 years is all I'd get from lead batteries. Still working but after second year just held less capacity. Also had an issue where the GPS in the trolling motor stayed on and would run down battery when not in use. Lots of chatter on WaleyeCentral forum about lithium batteries. Seems like the way to go if you've got the $ . Nice to get weight out of the boat as well. Prices coming down as well.
Love my new autopilot works better than kicker plus bowmount ever did.
 
Ticker said:
Anyway use them ? Any feedback be appreciated
I'm going trough the led batteries every 3 years or less for my 24 v trolling motor just not holding the charge anymore for the full day , last 2 times out 3 hours and depleted , yes wiring I updated first day on the boat and using a minnkota plug with same heavy gauge wires I think its 8 or 10 gauge, current batteries are 100 ah last time got them from a battery shop in Kitchener
I keep them on charge all year with minnkota 3 bank smart charger
Use them for anchor mode when perching, bass fishing as well for trolling for boat control on low settings 3-5 on minnkota ulterra
Had a variety brands of batteries, I did read up on it if depleted beyond 50 % that effects it lifetime
So is lithium worth it ? Or upgrade to AGM only ?
Or just keep replacing the led type
Click to expand...
Ticker said:
Anyway use them ? Any feedback be appreciated
I'm going trough the led batteries every 3 years or less for my 24 v trolling motor just not holding the charge anymore for the full day , last 2 times out 3 hours and depleted , yes wiring I updated first day on the boat and using a minnkota plug with same heavy gauge wires I think its 8 or 10 gauge, current batteries are 100 ah last time got them from a battery shop in Kitchener
I keep them on charge all year with minnkota 3 bank smart charger
Use them for anchor mode when perching, bass fishing as well for trolling for boat control on low settings 3-5 on minnkota ulterra
Had a variety brands of batteries, I did read up on it if depleted beyond 50 % that effects it lifetime
So is lithium worth it ? Or upgrade to AGM only ?
Or just keep replacing the led type
Click to expand...
Ticker, check out Amped Outdoors website. They will have you covered.
 
“dual carbon battery is a type of battery that uses graphite (or carbon) as both its cathode and anodematerial. Compared to lithium-ion batteries, dual-ion batteries (DIBs) require less energy and emit less CO2 during production, have a reduced reliance on critical materials such as Ni or Co, and are more easily recyclable”

They store more charge and do not need to be topped up as frequently. Smaller size as the plates are stacked tightly… they can sit forever and hold full charge. No degradation

Lighter and smaller and less maintenance. I haven’t tried one yet but from what I see, it looks awesome. Bunch of new technologies or chemistries coming out in 2023 for a lot of suppliers.

I rep a battery line and we have a “solid state” battery coming out this year. So do many others.

Lithium battery costs are high due to transportation regulations… batteries should see a price reduction with Solid state and Carbon/carbon and less maintenance in the coming year
 
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Like everyone on this chat I have had to replace my lead acid batteries for my bow mount every two years. If I am lucky Three years. I have run all name brands batteries with same results. I have a minn kota on board precision 3 bank charger to maintain these batteries. With all the chatter and some research at the shows... I'm biting the bullet and replacing with lithium. I need to lighten the load in the bow of my boat while trailering and would like longer troll time with the Ipilot. I hope long term these batteries last and give me the low maintenance and performance that all are claiming to have.
 
Jello made a good point about chargers. I changed over my lead acid batteries on my RV last year and due to completely different charging profile needed for lithium, had to change out solar controller and the RV converter that had lithium charging a capabilities.

Otherwise, you will only ever charge your lithiums to 90% with conventional chargers.
 
Wave Runner said:
@Czy_Horse... Being a retired electrician I'm sure you know what you are talking about, but Minn Kota suggests the following? I am currently using a 60 amp breaker with 15 ft. of 8 AWG wiring from two 31 series batteries to the motor plug-in on my 24 volt electric trolling motor which according to Minn Kota's chart is well within their specs. I'm a little confused so hoping you can fill me in with a little more info on the subject.

CONDUCTOR GAUGE AND CIRCUIT BREAKER SIZING TABLE​

This conductor and circuit breaker sizing table are only valid for the following assumptions:
  1. No more than 2 conductors are bundled together inside of a sheath or conduit outside of engine spaces.
  2. Each conductor has 105° C temp-rated insulation.
  3. No more than 5% voltage drop allowed at full motor power based on published product power requirements
MOTOR THRUST/MODELMAX AMP DRAWCIRCUIT BREAKERWIRE EXTENSION LENGTH
5 FT
Click to expand...
10 FT
Click to expand...
15 FT
Click to expand...
20 FT
Click to expand...
25 FT
Click to expand...
30 lb.3050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
40 lb., 45 lb.4250 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
50 lb., 55 lb.5060 Amp @ 12 VDC8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG2 AWG
70 lb.4250 Amp @ 24 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG
80 lb.5660 Amp @ 24 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG6 AWG6 AWG
101 lb.4650 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
Engine Mount 1015060 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
112 lb.5260 Amp @ 36 VDC8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG8 AWG
Engine Mount 160116(2) x 60 Amp @ 24 VDC6 AWG6 AWG4 AWG2 AWG2 AWG
E-Drive4050 Amp @ 48 VDC10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG10 AWG
Talon Shallow Water Anchor3050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG
Raptor Shallow Water Anchor7050 Amp @ 12 VDC10 AWG8 AWG6 AWG4 AWG4 AWG
NOTICE: Wire Extension Length refers to the distance from the batteries to the trolling motor leads. Consult website for available thrust options. Maximum Amp Draw values only occur intermittently during select conditions and should not be used as continuous amp load ratings.

Reference United States Code of Federal Regulations: 33 CFR 183 – Boats and Associated Equipment ABYC E-11: AC and DC Electrical Systems on Boats
Click to expand...

The 'Canadian Electric Code' is more strict and safer.

The above information is the absolute bare MIN required and will "work" if installed exactly as per above. BUT you continue to pay. In shorter battery life-more charge cycles($), longer charge times($) and less run time on the water:(.

>No more than 2 conductors in a conduit or raceway. <A raceway is also any hole your feeding wire thru. More than the 2 wires increases the system losses.
>The expensive high temp 105C wire will resist the heating at the Amperage's listed above. If your using a Lower Temp rated wire, heat breaks down the insulation over time. Make sure the wire is also water resistant.
>The 5% voltage drop willbe your on going cost of of running under sized wiring.

It's been a long, long time since I've done/thought about these calculations but you should get the idea-
Installed for a 5% drop:
12VDC x 5% = 0.6VDC drop across your wiring. So your motor will only sees 11.4VDC.
SO with a 50Amp motor load, 0.6V v 50Amp = 30 Watts lost as heat in your wiring.



Installed for a 1% drop;
12VDC x 1% = 0.12VDC drop across your wiring. So your motor will only see 11.88VDC
SO with a 50Amp Max draw, 0.12VDC x 50Amp= 6 Watts lost as heat



The Power Loss in these wiring systems increases by the 'Square of the Current'. 1-Amp thru 1-Ohm is 1-Watt, 2-Amp thru 1-Ohm is 4-Watts.
Power(Watts) = Current(Amp) x Current(Amp) x Wire Resistance(Ohms) = Current(Amp) x Voltage
 
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Thanks for that @Czy_Horse much appreciated. From my battery box to the plug outlet for the 24 volt electric motor the outlet is only about 10 ft. or so currently with 8 AWG wire. The cord on the electric is also 8 AWG 6 ft. long. If I run Ancor 6 AWG Marine Grade wire that is rated at 600 volts, 105° C dry and 75° C wet from the batteries to the plug would that be more than sufficient to address all the points you outlined, or would 4 AWG be even better? Thanks again.
 
Sat down, drew it out, did the math, deleted mistake.

The #6 will increase the efficiency of your system, if it was a 12 volt electric motor I'd recommend the #4

The small added resistances at each connection point in a 'high' current DC circuit quickly add up the inefficiencies. I check and clean what I can at the start of each season.
 
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