Off Topic Boat valuations and Insurance
- Thread starter spincast
- Start date
spincast
Well-Known Member
There are companies that insure directly, removing the broker. However, I would never use one, even though I do read every clause of every policy I own and understand its implications. If you can't say the same thing, then you definitely don't want to consider removing the broker, in my opinion. Even if you do read the policy word by word and understand how many ways they have given themselves the advantage, you still want a broker, in my opinion. The insurance company is in business to make a profit. As such, one of the key targets is minimizing claim payouts. This is done through clauses in the policy, implied and explicit, as well as various techniques that at times aren't in the policy (just google XXX Direct (pick any insurance company with "Direct" as a part of their name) refuses to pay). If it is you, with your $100, $200 or even $1300 premium versus the insurance company with their millions of dollars and deep legal team, how much chance do you think you will have negotiating a payout that is optimal and fair to you the policy holder if doing so is not to the advantage of the insurance company? On the other hand, the broker is dependent on your 25%, for each of your policies, and the power of your word-of-mouth references, good or bad, can make or break a brokerage. And the brokerage is placing lots and lots of policies with the insurance company. So the brokerage has clout with the insurance company for all those premiums, and you have clout with the brokerage. That 25% you pay will provide you power in the relationship you would otherwise not have in the event of a claim. I could provide examples of how claims have played for hours. In one case, we were being sued for 400,000 by a client. The claim wasn't legit and I had the legal proof, outlined and provided. The party suing us was a massive multinational, and they didn't care, They tried to bully and threaten. The initial adjuster didn't want to challenge or fight back and was going to recommend we settle for something less, but still significant, as going to court would cost the insurance company more then the amount they wanted to settle for. I reached the VP of claims at my brokerage and had a word about how such a strategy might affect our relationship. The next week a new adjuster was assigned, and 3 days later the lawsuit was dropped.
The rule of thumb for insurance is only place a claim for what you can't afford. So, if you have a boat that has a value of a few grand and you can afford to cover that in the event of a total loss, don't insure for theft or loss - only liability. And this is my issue. If my boat is stolen, or trashed on the highway by one of today's amazingly talented motorists, or involved in event such as we saw last fall when the boats were destroyed against breakwalls as a result of a storm, the 40K I insured it for 3 years ago doesn't even come close to replacing my investment. Like Porkpie - I need to be closer to 100K. How I structure the policy, establish and get the approved new value, and get a fair premium are all part of the consideration.
It's pretty standard amongst all of the marine insurers, you will still be able to get coverage, it will just be the depreciated value (actual cash value) , not the agreed value
Maestrolaker
Well-Known Member
interesting read and a little concerning given the recent swings in valuations. I'm running a 2021 Ranger 622FS loaded and I know what I paid for it but suspect I'm 50k below market on my insurance today. That's a big kick in pants if stolen or severely damaged. I too hate paying insurance premiums but likely going to visit this with my broker.....and as noted by spincast above, i would NEVER buy insurance without a broker. If nothing else, they provide an E&O option in between yourself and an insurer which can prove to be immensely helpful.
walleyeman
Well-Known Member
Agree 100%. I hate paying premiums also! Insurance is a gamble/ crap-shoot. You need it for the purpose of the What-Ifs! Just be careful about What you tell them when talking about Boat Valuations! Do not go OVERBOARD! If you do they will love taking your extra $ for a gamble. Be wise and be good!
Thanks, I believe I currently have agreed value, but of course it’s for what I paid 6 years ago and subsequent add ons like kicker etc. I’ll have to see what kind of luck I have getting a new valuation.
Elmerfudd
Well-Known Member
This coming month I will be bringing my one year old boat across and registering everything in Ontario. My insurance coverage in USA will need to be changed to an insurer up here. Down south with Allstate I was paying 460/yr for it with fire/theft/loss protection to replacement value and 2M liability coverage. I'm terrified what they are gonna do to me up here. Im going to try some independent agents and see what they quote me. Like the rest of you have commented, replacement value is already 30K USD higher than my purchase price. Will need to see what they have to say about that.
walleyeman
Well-Known Member
Hi Elmerfudd. May I suggest to you give Portside Marine Insurance a call. Ask for Kymberley Brown. She knows her stuff when it comes to boat insurance. Very nice person. Good luck my friend and be safe! I deal with them and I can not fine a better quote. Been with them since 2017 for my Lund Tyee.
skippy
Well-Known Member
who are you with?
spincast
Well-Known Member
Reach out to your broker. Make sure you know what coverage the marina requires. When talking to the broker, make sure you ask them to consider companies who offer more than one line of insurance (home, auto, marine) and offers a multi policy discount. If you find one with good rates and multipolicy discounts, transfer the other policies at renewal time.
Premier ( Through a broker).
REBELSS
Active Member
Thank you spincast for your detailed thoughts. It is very useful.
spincast
Well-Known Member
For anyone interested - thought I would share where this little exercise ended.
As a backgrounder _ I paid 32 K in 2015 for a 176 deep V Starcraft with a 115 and a 20 (power trim, helm controls) along with mooring and travel cover, stand up. Since then been upgrading annually. A brief exploration of what it would take to "make whole" in the event of a total loss was kinda ridiculous. Previous agreed value was 40 K. I asked for pricing at 50, 55 and 60k. Had to have a couple of forceful discussions with the broker to get them to push, and I had to do some pricing on what it would take to find a comparable boat (they actually are 0 of this model year for sale in Canada, and only one in the US - it was the last year with the deep V), plus upgrades Ended up with an agreed price of 60K for just under $600, with a reasonable deductible. It will mean switching providers, but the new policy doesn't have the requirement to have the winterization performed by a marina, although it does have a lay up for waters that are usually frozen between Nov 30 and Mar 30, although I can ask for consideration on this clause in writing. Overall - comparable coverage, essentially the same price as the 40k coverage with a slightly higher deductible and no need to provide a survey.
I'll put that in the win column
As a backgrounder _ I paid 32 K in 2015 for a 176 deep V Starcraft with a 115 and a 20 (power trim, helm controls) along with mooring and travel cover, stand up. Since then been upgrading annually. A brief exploration of what it would take to "make whole" in the event of a total loss was kinda ridiculous. Previous agreed value was 40 K. I asked for pricing at 50, 55 and 60k. Had to have a couple of forceful discussions with the broker to get them to push, and I had to do some pricing on what it would take to find a comparable boat (they actually are 0 of this model year for sale in Canada, and only one in the US - it was the last year with the deep V), plus upgrades Ended up with an agreed price of 60K for just under $600, with a reasonable deductible. It will mean switching providers, but the new policy doesn't have the requirement to have the winterization performed by a marina, although it does have a lay up for waters that are usually frozen between Nov 30 and Mar 30, although I can ask for consideration on this clause in writing. Overall - comparable coverage, essentially the same price as the 40k coverage with a slightly higher deductible and no need to provide a survey.
I'll put that in the win column
Funny you mention this, I am going through this process now. I've been a broker for 28 years and the pushback I am getting from insurers is unbelievable. The majority only want to cover what your financial interest is, meaning what you paid for it and some ask for a survey. I have a feeling they are thinking values are due for a correction and don't want to have a pile of over insured, older boats on their books.
spincast
Well-Known Member
I understand there might be some rather large yachts hitting the market on a fire sale soon. Good deal if you can read operating manuals in Russian from what I hear
As for boat values dropping in the future; could be. At the end of the day, they are underwriting a risk. Price it accordingly. I have accepted a higher co insurance amount and a higher deductible. But at least now if some clown rear ends me on the way to the lake, I can manage the cost to get back on the water
As for boat values dropping in the future; could be. At the end of the day, they are underwriting a risk. Price it accordingly. I have accepted a higher co insurance amount and a higher deductible. But at least now if some clown rear ends me on the way to the lake, I can manage the cost to get back on the water