Ontario Raises required Ethanol Content in Gasoline

[G.Mech]

It looks like we're going to have to deal with even more ethanol in our fuels now that the Ontario government has mandated 10% average ethanol content in gasoline. The current 5% and the new 10% are the average content across all blends so unless they can put 15% in the regular or something, we're likely going to see some ethanol in the premium blends. Currently regular has up to 10% which allows them to keep the premium ethanol free but most cars can't handle any more than 10% so it's hard to say what the fuel companies are going to do to achieve the new averages. At any rate, this is not good news for boaters & small engine users....

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rep...-ethanol-content-requirement/article37145115/

 

[Duck Soup]

Yeah, I worked in the industry for most of my career but am no longer in a position to know what is really going on. Historically ethanol free premium fuel was harder to come by than we were lead to believe. Consumers are the losers as usual. Politically ethanol makes sense because it supports agriculture and technically produces less unwanted carbon dioxide but it is a poor substitute for gasoline, does not provide good mileage and causes consumers and especially boaters problems. The amount of carbon dioxide generated in producing the crops and the manufacture and distribution of ethanol is conveniently forgotten.

 

[wildeye rainbow]

This is bad news.
I had some serious issues with regular gas in my 2hp Yamaha a few years back on a canoe trip up north. The plug getting getting fouled - I had to take the plug out clean it or put a new one in. Then the yami would only go for about 20min and foul up again. The lodge owner gave us a gas additive and it seemed to clear up the problem.

Now we use premium gas along with the gas additive. So far, no problems with plugs fouling BUT if they add ethanol to premium gas, then who knows.

WR

 

[Richardscott999]

I run shell v power for my two stroke engines as it is supposed to be ethanol free, that’s how it is advertised at least

 

[GPS]

Richardscott I believe you are correct. I am told that ALL Shell gas west of Kitchener is ethanol free. The GTA meets Shells requirement for ethanol blending.
This may change if the blend is raised to 10%.

 

[jumbos]

Yeah, I worked in the industry for most of my career but am no longer in a position to know what is really going on. Historically ethanol free premium fuel was harder to come by than we were lead to believe. Consumers are the losers as usual. Politically ethanol makes sense because it supports agriculture and technically produces less unwanted carbon dioxide but it is a poor substitute for gasoline, does not provide good mileage and causes consumers and especially boaters problems. The amount of carbon dioxide generated in producing the crops and the manufacture and distribution of ethanol is conveniently forgotten.

All you say is true.....But if the corn or sweet potatoes come from the US....how does it help the Canadian farmer/ economy. Canadian farmers can compete with any farmers in the world....as long as the playing field is the same. Buuuuutttttt it’s not. The raise in minimum wage to $14 in January and $15 in 2019 will without a doubt have an impact on Canadian produce in Canada. Price is a key decision when people buy food in grocery store....or to process food...or to feed an ethenal plant!

 

[Duck Soup]

All you say is true.....But if the corn or sweet potatoes come from the US....how does it help the Canadian farmer/ economy. Canadian farmers can compete with any farmers in the world....as long as the playing field is the same. Buuuuutttttt it’s not. The raise in minimum wage to $14 in January and $15 in 2019 will without a doubt have an impact on Canadian produce in Canada. Price is a key decision when people buy food in grocery store....or to process food...or to feed an ethenal plant!

I hear you Brian.....justice and fairness is just a dream that ambitious politicians use to get our votes. Our Provincial Government is selling the new minimum wage using that language. I once voted for Justin's dad based on his Just Society promise and am still waiting.

 

[Wave Runner]

Like most I wish that there was no ethanol in our fuels period but it looks like it's here to stay. There's lots of myths about E10 ethanol fuel that apparently have been debunked. All major outboard companies such as Mercury, Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Johnson and Evinrude say E10 fuel is suitable in their engines but I might add none recommend E15 ever as it certainly will do damage. I personally have used regular E10 fuel not only in my outboards but all my vehicles, power washers, mowers, grass trimmers, whatever and honestly have never had any negative effects. Although if the Ontario government is planning to implement E15 fuel it's bad news because they could care less if it destroys your outboard. This is what the EPA in the US says about E15 fuel use but I certainly wouldn't trust any of the EPA's claims about anything either.

About E15 fuel
E15 is a fuel blend of 15% ethanol and 85% gasoline. It can be used in:

• Flexible-fuel vehicles (FFVs);
• Model year 2001 and newer cars;
• Model year 2001 and newer light-duty trucks; and
• Model year 2001 and newer medium-duty passenger vehicles (SUVs).

It cannot be used in:

• On-highway and nonroad motorcycles;
• Vehicles with heavy-duty engines, such as school buses, transit buses, and delivery trucks;
• Nonroad vehicles, such as boats and snowmobiles;
• Engines in nonroad equipment, such as lawnmowers and chain saws; or
• Model year 2000 and older cars, light-duty trucks, and medium-duty passenger vehicles.

 

[bigbus]

I don't think we'll see E15, just ALL grades being E10, I had issues with an older yamaha and ethanol, been running shell 91 ever since

 

[Big E]

Pure-gass.org shows you where non ethanol gass can be bought.
The colder it gets up north the less ethanol is in gass because it
Reacts with moisture in the air and freezes lines. Great site.

 

[Wave Runner]

Reputable sites state that because ethanol is alcohol, your gas lines will not freeze during the winter months. That this is one of the good side effect of using ethanol and also because ethanol is a solvent it keeps the fuel system clean. Most all gas line antifreeze are made from either isopropyl alcohol or methyl hydrate which another pure form of alcohol. Apparently E10 gets blamed for many issues that are not even related to the fuel. Let me be clear I'm not saying ethanol is a good thing but because it's here to stay lets have clear facts. In this article Mercury Marine dispels some of the myths that are circulating such as gas lines freezing etc.

https://www.apba.org/sites/all/files/documents/Ethanol2.pdf

 

[mick]

I trust shell fuel here in St.thomas in all my gas tanks...and if I go out of town and cant find a shell pump...then esso is my 2nd choice...I seen some husky pumps state there fuel does contain ethanol.. I was led to believe ethanol blend eventually breaks down into moisture and can leave water in the bottom of your tank...

 

[mick]

Hey waverunner, could you take a minute and look at the negative effects of ethanol to a 4 stroke gasoline engine with standard fuel injection and maybe you could explain what the risks of damage are to the engine...I can't seem to find or understand it...if its just moisture...then the moisture can be displaced...to me it ends up under dead gas ...

 

[wildeye rainbow]

I trust shell fuel here in St.thomas in all my gas tanks...and if I go out of town and cant find a shell pump...then esso is my 2nd choice...I seen some husky pumps state there fuel does contain ethanol.. I was led to believe ethanol blend eventually breaks down into moisture and can leave water in the bottom of your tank...

I do the same in St T. I use Shell premium gas for my lawnmowers, snowblowers, and yamaha outboard. I also use an additive. So far, no problems.

WR

 

[Duck Soup]

I trust shell fuel here in St.thomas in all my gas tanks...and if I go out of town and cant find a shell pump...then esso is my 2nd choice...I seen some husky pumps state there fuel does contain ethanol.. I was led to believe ethanol blend eventually breaks down into moisture and can leave water in the bottom of your tank...

Trusting a brand is typically unreliable. Petroleum manufacturers and suppliers exchange fuel whenever it is expedient and cost effective to do so. Often the refinery closest to the retail outlet you buy from supplies most of the fuel in the area. When refineries shut down for maintenance reasons they simply must rely on exchanges with competitors. In some regions of Canada one or two refiners supply everyone.

 

[mick]

The last 13 months I have racked up thousands of miles and countless gas tank fill ups in my U.S. bought F150 .. 82 hours return to NW alberta and out 54 hours return to NFLD and here in northern ONT 2 trips one 42 hours return lake of the woods... and 28 hours return longlac back in the spring..the mixture of fuel was good and my experience can be trusted.. thanks CAA membership for the trip tiks and bell mobility service ...and they have towers in remote territory...

 

[Wave Runner]

@mick... There's many others but this link explains most of your questions. One issue that comes up repeatedly is ethanol absorbs water faster and can cause phase separation over time which is one of the bad effects of Ethanol. Boaters that use their boats frequently don't seem to have a problem but when sitting for extended periods of nonuse and not using stabilizer is where most problems arise because ethanol breaks down faster. From what I have researched the reason I believe I haven't had any issues with E10 is for one I use my boat enough that the fuel doesn't have a chance to break down and secondly I always drain my tank down to almost empty for winter storage and also add stabilizer. Many say to fill the tank full but that just leaves a lot more ethanol in the tank to break down over the winter. You do get some minor condensation which I find K-100 adequately takes care of when I fill the tank with fresh gas in the spring. I might add that my 4 stroke Honda 90 has been running on ethanol fuel for 18 years without a single issue.

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Busting-Ethanol-Fuel-Myths

 

[Extra Virgin]

I have the privilege of using an ethanol tester at my dealership. All the samples I have tested, came back 0% . The disclaimer on the pump says up to ten percent.

Unless you purchase from the green hose that actually states it's blended, I think you are safe from the "poison" corn fuel

 

[mick]

Thanks waverunner for that...yes I agree with you on not to fill the gas tank and keep it full for storage...even before the ethanol blend at some pumps...I store my yamaha griz 700 ATV with just enough fuel to start it. nothing better then filling the tank with fresh fuel. flat gas is good for killing weeds. even with stabilizer old gas never run right especially, my ATV, so I don't even bother trying to run old gas with my others...years back I had one moisture issue where I had water pellets in the 3 carbs on a 115 merc OB...I used compressed air and blew out the jets...that fixed that..
and back when the family all had snowmobiles we added gas line antifreeze...I was never big on using additives...I tried octane boost a few times..2 stroke motor bike...higher octane fuel does go further for miles
ya if thats all consumers need to do is keep running there fuel so it don't get old...not a big deal..when the word damage is brought up, I thought there was some kind of internal engine damage risk with running ethanol...

when I filled up my tank yesterday at shell I noticed the sign nitrogen enriched...not sure what that meant..

 

[Wave Runner]

Shell claims its nitrogen-enriched gasoline “seeks and destroys” an engine's carbon deposits but others say it's just another marketing ploy.
Who knows @mick with all today's gimmicky advertising campaigns? LOL!