Rainbow Trout in Long Point Bay

There is a reason Jimmy Riggin is fishin out of Pt Bruce for the summer instead of LPB. It's all about putting fish in the boat and you can't guarantee that for the customers in LPB.

As for Duck Soups comments I believe he puts more time in on the water than anyone including the MNR so he should be looked upon as an authority as to what is or is not biting in the bay. Personally I'd like to see another river open up for drifting for bows. If the stocking programs are done then there needs to be more spawning river opened up for the fish to procreate.

Rob
 
John. You and the LPBAA have my full support. Just made the cheque out and will drop it off on the weekend. As a former director I know that it is not always easy or fashionable to be one of the few to make the decisions that can affect so many. There will always be the ones that will doubt the work being done in the background yet they will be the first ones to bitch and complain then jump from their seats at the end of the annual meeting (if they even bother to go) to get out of the building before someone asks them to do something. I resigned as a director because I knew that I could not commit the time and effort that was needed to do what had to be done as well as work 2 jobs and try to keep my household together. I would rather abandon that chair and leave a space for someone that maybe could commit more than I can. I'm only a creek rat, and very proud to be one. Outside of my family, fishing our local tribs means more to me than anything in this world. Those few that I call good friends know how deep those waters run within me. I read this forum every day just to keep connected to the waters that I drive over every day to go to work and get to spend so little time on. It just pisses me off to read some of the posts and newspaper articles that seem to make light of the hard work many have done in the past to get to where we are at this moment.

Stick

DSC00287cropped.jpg



As the Sun breaks above the ground
An old man stands on the hill
As the ground warms to the first rays of light
A birdsong shatters the still

His eyes are ablaze
See the madman in his gaze
 
John (Dotcom);
Thank you whole heartedly for your eloquent reply, it was just what we (I) needed to hear. I applaud your stance on this issue and see once again that the LBPAA is that worthy group of people who indeed truly care, the one's that make a difference. My support continues, emboldened by your comments. Are there any suggestions for further actions/donations for legal fees etc that could help?

Stick;

T'would seem your comments are directed toward myself, and others...

("There will always be the ones that will doubt the work being done in the background yet they will be the first ones to bitch and complain then jump from their seats at the end of the annual meeting (if they even bother to go) to get out of the building before someone asks them to do something.")

However I can assure you that this is normally the process, and does not relate to "bitching" as you eloquently descried. People like me, are not in the know as far as the nitty-gritty of details, and forums such as these are perfect places to voice opinions, and become educated, this is the process. John did a great thing in letting us know the details, stuff that behind the scenes and the real story behind the story. This is not bitching, it is learning. If anything, it allowed the members reading this forum string to all become educated, and actually show us all the LPBAA stance, which was shown to be unknown by most of us, to be clearly outlined thanks to Dotcom. If anything, this should now also embolden support for LPBAA, where a day ago, I think many people were indeed "wondering". I was not alone here, and John Rakoczi 100% cleared that up.

CD

PS I hate Iron Maiden
 
Wow!! Thank-you Duck Soup for having the guts to speak up and say something about the poor quality of the offshore fishery in LPB. We were always interested in the deepest waters of Lake Erie off of long point but never had much experience fishing them. We took a charter a few years back out of LPB to fish for jumbo lakers(wasn't aware of the fishery) and didn't catch any which was disappointing. We know alot of fisherman who have fished LPB offshore, and struggled to catch anything other than the odd walleye and alot of sheepshead. Thank goodness for the USA and their rainbow stocking programs or there wouldn't be much of anything to fish for on Lake Erie. Our MNR stocking and management programs are a joke, and if they followed similar American stocking plans, the fishing out on Erie would be world class.

Anything That Swims
Fish em All
 
C D, I didn’t direct my comments at you per se. When I was a director I heard from a lot of individuals on various things that the LPBAA were doing wrong or the DDAA were doing wrong or the MNR were doing wrong and listened to the same guys at meetings sounding like a broken record when the MNR reps came to the meetings over and over again. Yet when these individuals were asked to contribute a little time for a project or to help out all I kept hearing was that it was “our job” because we were the executive or I’ll check my schedule and get back to you.
I was more trying to back John and the LPBAA executives up and to curtail the bitching here on a forum that does none of us any good except to give the bitcher some place to vent. The real place to bitch is to your councillors, your MPP’s and your MP’s. As volunteers, club executives can only do so much without the backing of individual constituents in the political realm that the powers that be have to live within and gain votes.
John has graciously posted his phone number for those that wish to contact him and speak their minds or volunteer their time to help the cause to try and keep Long Point Bay as the world class fishery that it is. I urge anyone that can, to talk to John or any other executive member and assist these folks in anyway they can to assure as best we can that the fishery we inherited is as good as it can be for the future generations that want to enjoy it as we all have been able to.

PS
About Maiden
The Flight of Icarus has always reminded me that no matter how good things can be, there is always something that can bring you crashing to the ground in a ball of fire. Keeps me somewhat level headed when the fall fishery explodes and the adrenaline from chrome keeps me high as a kite for weeks throughout the most beautiful season of the year. (My daughters name is Autumn Dawn for a very good reason.) But then again there must be a reason why I wake the birds in the fall to Metallica and the San Francisco Philharmonic Orchestra. Could it be that I am just an “Outlaw Torn”?
Happy New Year to you and yours and everyone else here on 68, be you contributor or lurker!


Stick

DSC00287cropped.jpg



As the Sun breaks above the ground
An old man stands on the hill
As the ground warms to the first rays of light
A birdsong shatters the still

His eyes are ablaze
See the madman in his gaze
 
To Dotcom,

Thanks for making clear where the LPBAA stands on the matter. Maybe this will turn out to be one victory in what seems to me to have been a series of defeats in the battle to protect the Long Point Bay offshore fishery.
 
The numbers of bows caught in LPB are definately down, everyone who fishes offshore sees that. However, back when the MNR stocked many fish on the Canadian side, alot of those fish were basically put and take, similar to the U.S plantings. But just because numbers are down offshore doesn't mean the fishery is hurting. A few thousand natural fish in the creeks, once spread out in the lake, would be pretty hard to intercept. It's just like the West Coast. Rivers such as the Skeena, get large runs of wild steelhead, yet you NEVER see anyone catch one trolling in the open ocean. Offshore fishing is not necessarily a good indicator of overall population density. The U.S side dumps ridiculous numbers of fish in, and they have next to nothing in terms of good spawning habitat, other than maybe the upper stretches and tribs of Cattaraugus creek. So I can understand the MNR's side on this. We have good spawning habitat, and they would like to see the streams have stable, naturally reproducing runs that don't rely on stocking.

Back in the days of the MNR stocking big numbers over here, yes there were more fish, but the creeks were packed full of stockers, which were spawning with the few naturally reproduced fish, resulting in minimal reproduction. They're doing the same thing in NY state right now in Cattaraugus, by cutting back the stocking hoping the naturally reproducing fish will benefit from it.

Look at the Grand river/Port Maitland. That river has an awesome run of self sustaining fish. How many of those do you hear of caught off Maitland? Not many.
 
I don't have a lot of background info but I have a couple of questions.
How long has the dam been on the river? I thought a long time and therefore would not be a factor in rainbow demise? Fishing is still good in grand for rainbows.
Lynn river has more browns in it than any river I have fished in for browns for over forty years(although fairly small fish and larger fish appear somewhat underfed)and it is a small river. Would not a run of large rainbows affect this brown population?
I have not given too much thought but am moving to within walking distance of river within three months and was looking forward to the brown fishing(all catch and release).
This may sound silly ,at a minimum uninformed, but I would have thought all the goose dung going into the river in Simcoe would be a greater threat.
I would welcome comment.
 
as we all know the fishing offshore for walleye and rainbow has declined in the bay and offshore,as a charter boat operator on the bay in the 1990's and earlier there were lean years and very productive years we still get that now but the fishing drastically dropped the last few years you can have all the scientific explainations you want but the fish are not there. I support tearing down the damn making more habitat but without the MNR stocking it wont recover as there are not a lot of fish that use these rivers.as you know all the fish don't run on the same day so to say a few thousand fish are more noticed in the river well if they ran at once ok but divided amongst all the creeks points at poor returns. as far as ocean steelhead the west coast of VANCOUVER ISLAND you can surf fish for them.we are lucky to have people like STOMP around never met the man but his love and dedication is to be commended.as far as MR. MISNER is concerned ask him how much damage the nets have caused.how many steelhead the trawlers killed... man incidental catch I forgot.there are a lot more reasons for the state of the fisheries but if we dont stock and manage we can build all the habitat you want.
 
Wow.http://www.simcoereformer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2907055Quotes from the article, re-posted link for quote reference.Quotes:

"Misner added it is difficult to have a constructive discussion about complex issues when key decision-makers are fed potentially unreliable information.

"It makes it very awkward to have a productive dialogue when someone is not dealing in the facts," he said."

"Rick Misner of Port Dover, chair of the town's Save Silver Lake committee, says angler success is not a reliable indicator offish numbers in any given ecosystem. Just because sport fishermen aren't catching the numbers they would like, Misner said, doesn't mean a population is struggling or collapsing."

Really? So the president of the organization opposed to removing the dam says something, and we take is as fact? Hmmmmm.


"The MNR was also surprised to hear of the rainbow's collapse.

"I was talking to the people in the Lake Erie Management Unit and their reaction was `What!?'" said MNR spokesperson Jolanta Kowalski. "At this point, I can't attest to anything that would back this up. Staff says rainbow trout is doing well in our lakes and streams.""

Wait, staff says its ok, so its ok, right? Must be fact. Lets not even check the numbers, its all good. (/sarcasm).
______________________________________________________________________


The bias in this article is unbelieveable.

Luckily, the reporter left his email and phone number in the article. I, for one, am going to e-mail and call, asking for a fair article.
 
the lynn has the potential to have spawning runs, that river is so dammed up its unbelievable, and for what? to sit there and rot, thats exactly what it is, so let those **** birds keep ****ting in there and let them keep lowering water levels and dredging to get rid of it, idk where you get browns in the lynn, but it sure as hell aint anywheres close to simcoe.

fishing,for some a hobby, for most an addiction
 
and can someone tell me why those dams are there? like we really need all of them,misners is the first step, and these dam should have fish bridges on them.

fishing,for some a hobby, for most an addiction
 
Thanks for clearing that up dotcom re: lpbaa's position/involvement with misners dam.
Maybe i'm in the dark, but it appears many were/are unaware of lpbaa's position, myself included. I had no idea and i have been following closely since day one. Thats very encouraging to hear, excellent post! It would be nice to see some accurate pro removal coverage for a change. Nearly everything published is inaccurate, a mis-quote or a full on crock of S***. Dennis Wright had a great "letter to the editor" in the reformer a couple weeks ago - he should step in for monte sonneberg....

check out this article from the spectator that came out yesterday. Very similar to Misners - below


Dam Decision tough, correct

Striking a balance between being environmentally and socially responsible is never easy. The Hamilton Conservation Authority’s decision to go ahead with a $1-million project to demolish the aging Crooks Hollow Dam in Greensville is a good example.

In case you missed this story, it centres around the decision to go ahead with the plan to remove the dam and rehabilitate the river system in the area to return it to a pre-dam state. Local residents, hundreds of whom signed petitions and protested the plan, are predictably unhappy. And if you’ve visited the area to enjoy the scenic and sensory pleasures offered by Crooks Hollow, you might understand why they disagree with the decision, which will undoubtedly alter the bucolic landscape they are accustomed to, and in fact might have moved to the area to enjoy.

But the dam, which was built in the early 1900s to serve as a water supply for Dundas, is badly in need of repair and reconstruction. The estimated cost of that work is $1.2 to 1.4 million, which makes it considerably more expensive than the cost of removing all or most of the structure and letting Spencer Creek rush through as it did before dam was built. There are factors other than cost to consider. The dam does not serve any flood-control purpose. In fact, now that Dundas’s water supply is Lake Ontario, the only real reason for the dam is aesthetic — the structure and the adjacent 600-metre-long reservoir offer a peaceful and beautiful respite from urban life, as well as a home for flora and fauna.

What should the conservation authority have done? Pay a higher price to rebuild the dam, or remove it and restore the area creek and river to its original form, before it was altered by the dam and by location of numerous mills and other manifestations of human settlement?

The answer, with greatest respect to area residents and others who have fought to keep the dam, is the latter. In this era of fiscal restraint, any taxpayer-funded organization that chooses a more expensive decision over a cheaper one needs to have a very good reason. And that reason does not exist in this case. Just imagine the furor directed at the HCA had it chosen the higher-cost option with the only rationale being to respect the sensitivities of people who live in the area? And it’s not as if the HCA is removing the dam in favour of less-rustic development. In fact, Spencer Creek and area will end up being closer to its original state than before, and that is bound to have positive impact on the local environment overall.

This had to have been a tough call for HCA board members. But their obligation in the end is to the larger group of stakeholders who have an interest in conservation holdings, and expect decisions to be made with the big picture, not local parochial interests, front and centre. In that context, this is the right thing to do.

Howard Elliott


pretty similar!
 
I think you are all forgetting about Ivey's dam a mile up the stream from Misner's dam. No fish will get past it and it can't be removed as it's a heritage site. If it was removed, no more Lynn River - just a creek. I often wonder what the people in Simcoe would think if the dam was removed behind Gauld Electric. No more Park system in Simcoe. Just a mesquito infested creek with lots of weeds in the downtown park - sort of like Sutton's Pond. Thanks.
 
Fish should be able to get over Ivey's dam in high water. Also, I am sure some modifications could be made to it. Removal of dams actually will help the river because it will increase flow and will not affect the size of the river. Slow dammed up mill ponds are much better mosquito breeding habitat than cold, clear, fast moving water.
 
Removing dams, and opening streams back up into their natural state is great. But one dam, on one stream will not increase offshore numbers of Rainbows.

I've been a steelie fisherman for years, just like many on this board. I've always had a great time fishing in any of the area tribs, and for the most part, I rarely catch a fin-clipped fish, or a fish with dorsal fin wear due to hatchery crowding. With that said, it's probably safe to say that the streams have self-supporting runs of naturally reproducing fish, with a few U.S stocked strays. Now, when I fish the U.S tribs, it's completely different. The fish are stacked like wood, easy to catch, and close to 100% are clipped or hatchery raised. For me personally, it's a treat to fish the Norfolk/Simcoe area tribs.

Yes, perhaps numbers are down offshore, walleye and bows. I fish hard all summer, and even though it was a great season, it was a bit slower than last. But I think there are lots of other issues that need to be addressed as well.

As for the walleye fishing, why are there so many open seasons on walleye during prime spawning? Why do so many of the spawners running up detroit river, or the large females in the western end of the lake end up on stringers? Yes, commercial fishing is huge too, but if the season were closed, or a slot put in place for the winter/ice season, maybe the walleye numbers would begin to increase?

As for the bows, the U.S side stocks such a huge number of fish it's incredible. Maybe a study should be done to see if there is a reason why many of those fish aren't utilizing the offshore waters of LPB? This season alone, I have caught 3 tagged bows from the Buffalo NY area that were tagged at Huron river at the far west end of Erie. When I called them in, I was told there were dozens of tags called in already, most from the far east end of the lake. The ones I caught were in Buffalo, at the extreme opposite end from where the fish were planted. So they ARE wandering, and using the entire lake, maybe for some reason not LPB.

But in terms of stocking, if local tribs have healthy numbers of spawners, why stock? If the available spawning water in the area is at it's proper population density, why add more?
 
Kevin, i dont think any correlation should be drawn between misners dam and LPB rainbow populations. Would dropping the dam have a noticable impact on LPB rainbow populations offshore? probably not anything spectacular, but dropping the dam is the right thing to do from an economic and ecological stand point. All in all, allowing migratory trout access up stream is only one aspect of this issue. Removing misners is a start and will help set a precedent in dealing with derelict dams in norfolk and ontario. The point is, it served its purpose, it had a good run, but all things must come to an end sooner or later, and unfortunately for misners dam and silver lake, the time is now.

Despite what some may think, the lynn river would make for an awesome steelie river. Forget about iveys dam for now, suitable spawning habitat can be found all through the lower lynn stretch of river, minus the shale and limestone areas close to the dam, but down from the bridge toward the lake i think you would be pleasantly suprised at what has resurfaced since the dam was dropped. I witnessed first hand last spring, fish spawning in that stretch, and the fingerlings and smolt are now kicking aroung proving that spawning success can be had if the conditions are right. Hell i fished it on opener and had a rockin day!! certainly was worth cancelling my trip up to G-Bay.

I totally agree with your view on stocking. We dont need to dilute the gene pool, similar to that of the catt and eighteen mile across the lake. The streams we have that are currently pumping out steel are doing just fine, and i wouldnt trade them for any river across the province!

it sure would be nice to have another one! ;)
 
I agree, the removal of the dam would be great. I'm just saying, I don't believe it's going to contribute to any major increase in overall rainbow population in the lake.

Why is it that the commercial fishermen hammer the offshore area of longpoint so hard? I know, a bit off topic, but my last several trips to the area I've seen numerous nets, EVERY time. It's got to be having an impact.

Down here in the Eastern end, I rarely see the nets set up in the same area.
 
Rainbow are fantastic to catch;however,if a rainbow run spoils the brown trout habitat and puts pressure on the brown trout population I don't see how you have gained anything.Stream browns are great to fish for and possibly more of a challenge.
 
quote:
Originally posted by angler

Rainbow are fantastic to catch;however,if a rainbow run spoils the brown trout habitat and puts pressure on the brown trout population I don't see how you have gained anything.Stream browns are great to fish for and possibly more of a challenge.



Take a look at the CRAA website they have proven that lake run steelhead (And Atlantics) co habitate with resident browns and rainbows with minimal affects and the Credit river is a world class fishery even though it's a slaughter when the salmon are in.

Shawnsavitar_psd-1-1.jpg
 
Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Advertising is what keeps Channel 6-8 on the air. To this end, please take a moment to disable your AdBlocker. If you would prefer an ad-free experience, but would still like to help support site operations, please consider making a donation.

I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks