Long Point Causeway Project

Buddy Boy

Well-Known Member
Hello Guys,

I was hoping that someone from the LPWA Board of Directors would be able to enlighten me as to where we as an organization stand regarding this project ... this very expensive project.

I attended the initial public "open house" meeting at the Port Rowan Community Center a few years ago as well as a subsequent "follow up" meeting a while ago. I have also attended some FOCAS meetings where several concerns have been raised regarding this project.

A pamphlet regarding this project has recently been distributed in which it is claimed that the achievements to date have been "at NO cost to Norfolk taxpayers". I am "choking" on this statement as there is also a contradictory statement included within this pamphlet that states "Assistance for this project was provided by the Government of Ontario" ... I took that to mean "financial" assistance. Another statement implies that the Government of Canada is also providing assistance to this project.

Since both of these levels of Government receive a large part of their respective funds through taxpayers it would mean that the claim "at NO cost to Norfolk taxpayers" is at the very least misleading if not an out right lie.

Furthermore, I recently heard on the local radio station that Norfolk County has agreed to cover a $60,000.00 "shortfall" of funding for this project. I wonder where Norfolk County is getting this money from ... obviously NOT from Norfolk taxpayers. So from where?

I also noticed within the pamphlet that the Long Point Waterfowlers Association was included within the list of "Steering Committee Members/Organizations" for this project. Although I have been a member of the LPWA since January of 2005 and have attended every Annual General Meeting since then I do not recall ever having this project discussed at any of our meetings. I believe (if I recall correctly) that one individual asked about this project in 2011 but the topic was not addressed at that time. I thought nothing about it at the time as the Long Point and Area Fish and Game Club had decided not to get politically involved with this project as well.

So where do we as an organization stand regarding this project? I understand that Mr. J. Malcolm (President, LPWA) has attended at least one (1) meeting regarding this project but I was told that he had stated that he was attending the meeting as a private individual.

The pamphlet also states that "Citizen Members" include Mr. Jim Abbey, Dr. Dave Ankney and Mr. Robert Scott. However Mr. J. Malcolm was not included in that list.

I am not against this project but I am against the anticipated cost of this project. I believe that the money can be better spent (if it has to be spent at all) and I believe (without a doubt) that this project will cost much more than what it is projected to cost ... not including any future maintenance costs.

Please advise me if I have been misinformed or if I have misperceived something that I have read about this project.

Sincerely,

Jerome Katchin, D.V.M.
Port Rowan, Ontario
 
The construction work on the ecopassages is scheduled to begin on the week of Nov 12 with the delivery of materials and equipment, setting up of traffic controls, etc. The actual installation of the two dry ecopassages will be completed the week of November 19. All work, including installation of the large culvert should be completed by the end of the week of Dec 3.
 
Interesting points Jerome,I've heard that the LongPoint Waterfowlers have given a financial commitment that they will fund the the required monitoring and the production of the annual reports that the MOE requires. I understand that this is because the Long Point World Biosphere Reserve Foundation ( LPWBRF ) has no money left, and are asking for donations and funding for this expensive multi-million dollar project which will not benefit duck hunting,why would our Association be involved ?????
 
Mudman -- Long Point Waterfowl, Scott Petrie's group, have committed to do the monitoring and to raise the money to pay for it. And you know that there's no benefit to duck hunting / ducks how?
 
Hello Mudman,

I was just responding to your comments when Canvasback posted his secondary response.

I received a telephone call from a concerned LPWA member on October 24, 2012 regarding this apparent funding by the LPWA. I told him/her that I thought that there was probably a misunderstanding between the name "Long Point Waterfowl" and the name "Long Point Waterfowlers Association" as the term used was "Long Point Waterfowlers" which is neither.

Okay ... I am a "detail man" and that has been determined as well as documented more than once while serving as a witness against the Federal Government.

Furthermore I advised this individual that I knew that Long Point Waterfowl had coducted the "Road Kill" survey along the causeway this past summer.

You may ask what does a "Road Kill" survey along the causeway have to do with waterfowl (as this individual did). I advised this individual that I had suspected that Long Point Waterfowl may have been hired to do the survey since they are located within the area but that I did not know this for sure ... just a thought.

Canvasback has clarified that this is not the case.

I am not in a position to comment upon the benefits of this project for waterfowl and waterfowl hunting but I do wonder how much the Ontario "birders" will support this project.

Jerome
 
The following is a list of the groups / individuals that support the project and that have helped to develop it ( Ducks Unlimited provided biological and engineering advice and should be on the list ):
Steering Committee Members/Organizations:
Long Point World Biosphere Reserve Foundation
Bird Studies Canada
Long Point Bay Anglers’ Association
Long Point Country Chamber of Commerce
Long Point Region Conservation Authority
Long Point Waterfowlers’ Association
Long Point Waterfowl
Norfolk County
Norfolk Field Naturalists
Norfolk Land Stewardship Council
Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources
Ontario Ministry of Transportation
Upper Thames River Conservation Authority
Toronto Zoo
Citizen Members:
Jim Abbey, Dr. Dave Ankney, Robert Scott, Stephana Johnston
 
Anything that benefits the Big Creek Marsh and the ecosystem in general will benefit the waterfowl that use it. A healthy marsh is critical to the big picture. As such, protecting all aspects of marsh life will protect the interests of birders and hunters alike.

I thought at one time Long Point Waterfowl was known as Long Point Waterfowl and Wetlands Research or something similar. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Buddy Boy has frequently demonstrated and stated his long standing opposition to most things supported by "government". It should not be surprising he is opposed to this.
 
Long Point Waterfowl and Wetland Research became incorporated (I believe) under the name Long Point Waterfowl.
quote:
Originally posted by tinboater

Anything that benefits the Big Creek Marsh and the ecosystem in general will benefit the waterfowl that use it. A healthy marsh is critical to the big picture. As such, protecting all aspects of marsh life will protect the interests of birders and hunters alike.

I thought at one time Long Point Waterfowl was known as Long Point Waterfowl and Wetlands Research or something similar. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Buddy Boy has frequently demonstrated and stated his long standing opposition to most things supported by "government". It should not be surprising he is opposed to this.

 
Buddy Boy... You sound like you might have a little to much time on your hands.... If you see an increase in your taxes from this project it will probably look something like this: 0.00000000000001%, the amount of money the government (at any level) has invested in this project is pennies compared to normal road improvement and infrastructure costs.

What's your real concern?
 
Hello Guys,

The following is my response to statements and questions asked.

Tinboater:

You stated "Buddy Boy has frequently demonstrated and stated his long standing opposition to most things supported by 'government'. It should not be surprising he is opposed to this". While you are entitled to your opinion you have made an inaccurate statement as I specifically stated within my post "I am not against this project but I am against the anticipated cost of this project".

Where have I ever stated my "long standing opposition to most things supported by government" in the past?

Please either post where I have actually stated this or retract your statement.

JiminyBlueBill:

If my property taxes increase by a higher percentage than you have suggested as a result of this project would you be willing to pay me the difference on an anuual basis? I do not think so!

My "real concern" is that this project appears that it may have been "approved" without due process. As previously stated I have attended meetings organized by the LPCIP supporters as well as by the FOCAS supporters ... something does not appear right to me. I will leave it to the representatives of FOCAS to present their concerns including the financial numbers that they have calculated.

I am also concerned that the LPWA would have decided to support this project without any formal discussion of it at an Annual General Meeting in the past.

Jerome
 
Jerome, you wrote: "My "real concern" is that this project appears that it may have been "approved" without due process."

You don't know what you're talking about. The LPCIP spent $150K on an Environmental Assessment, which was approve a month ago by the Provincial Minister of the Environment.
 
I think the most frustrating part of this project...and I agree with Jerome on this is the priority of the funding. The county of Norfolk can not fix a 30yr old drainage (and safety) issue on Erie Boulivard but can dump $150000 into some unproven culverts under the causeway.

Don't get Me wrong...hate to see the poor toads run over. But hate the waste of money and the ugliness of the frog fence more.
 
I agree again (with the bits that are critical of the science)! I'm not sure the science is behind the "eco-passage" idea. I've read some - not a lot - and I've listened to some pretty compelling evidence requiring way more than three culverts if any at all. But as far as process goes, I'm satisfied.
 
Buddy Boy,
I am not interested in helping you make up the difference, I apologize, but if you'd like I'm more than happy sharing a few ideas of how you could possibly make up for it yourself... First one being a lemonade stand, I heard of a kid down the street that makes $5 a day in the summer, if you do this you may even have some extra spending money... Second, I bet if you walked up and down the causeway after a long weekend you might hit the jackpot in beer cans, that way you not only help the cause and pay those taxes, but get some exercise which is always good... Not to mention take up some of your down time...

LPGAR: here's a link to the LPCIP website: www.longpointcauseway.com, it will have all the information on what has been spent. It's my understanding that Norfolk County has not given them $150k, it's actually more like $60k... I think they had to lobby pretty hard to get it...

I also don't mind seeing an ugly green reptile fence because I know it's there to save lives, since they installed it it's my understanding that they've reduced the road reptile kill mortality by 50%...
 
Alright here's a question, those ugly green fences are said to reduce mortality right? What about a female frog or turtle is doing a mating call, male frog or turtle is on the other side of the fence. They spend the whole time calling to each other and not mating. Yes they didn't get hit on the road, but how many didn't breed reducing the population by even more than ever would get hit? Sure the aesthetics are better BUT?
 
Or...have we produced the ideal racoon feeding stations at the fence line. Sure...we don't see the mortality on the road surface...but maybe We are actually reducing the over all populations. We will never know that as no one is studying it and the frog fence or eco-pass effects.
 
Lpgar, I think this is the deadly combination that will come with three passages and the fence line - the closest thing to a McDonalds that a predator will ever get - sit at, or in, one of the passages and eat the things that walk along the fence until they get to a passage.
 
Or how about this: once the 3 passages are in the frogs and turtles will make it safely across the road and mate, the racoons are more of a problem when they predate turtle eggs, turtles, snakes or frogs may be just as easily captured on a paved road as it hard surface with high visibility, racoons, coyote's and hawks will be able to see there prey from a mile away, and yes there has been an on going monitoring program funded by the LPCIP which is where I got the 50% reduction road kill mortally statistic... Go to there website and read about if you want more information.

Also if you haven't noticed they open up the fence in the spring and fall to let the reptiles migrate from the crown marsh to the bay, etc, when traffic is lower... Most of the time, in fact more than 90% of time turtles that cross the road are females looking for a place to lay there eggs, this is why the population of turtles is declining in combination with the racoons predating turtle eggs... Our native turtles did not evolve with racoons that's why they are so naturally prone to this problem... Turtles in particular need all the help they can get.
 
Yes I have noticed openings in the green fence. Now we just need to put up signs directing them to the openings. I sure it will work fine.
 
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