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Rainbow Trout in Long Point Bay

Discussion in 'Fishing Reports' started by Duck Soup, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Duck Soup

    Duck Soup Well-Known Member

    Read this article in the Simcoe Reformer. The state of your fishery is open to public scrutiny. If you ever wanted the opportunity to have a voice on this issue, this is it. Tell the MNR and your Norfolk Councillor what you think.

    http://www.simcoereformer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2907055
     
  2. quinner01

    quinner01 Well-Known Member

    Sounds like you are dealing with some uneducated people. There reasoning towards any of your arguments makes no sense whatsoever.



    [​IMG]
     
  3. fisherman

    fisherman Well-Known Member

    [}:)]the fish are there , arnold , you just have to make less noise to catch em,as far as reasoning goes think out side the box ,the spawn habits have changed some day i will let you in on the new habits of these fish.,but mabey your good friend piggy will help you ,, arnold im pulling your leg its a joke ,,[:eek:)]i had a fab fall fishing season from caledonia,, to the inner bay i personaly released 200 small trout over the fall ,,fishing days ..none were hurt as they were caqught in shallow waters and big river called the grand i do tons of fishing every day and am sucessfull an some days i come away skunked and im still happy that im, able to be free and do this thanks to people like my grandson who is a service member and my grand daughter who did a tour of the eastern war zone so arnold pucker up better days ahead and the silver lake deal what about acess to the lynn // private property holders wouldnt be to happy about trespassers woul;d they as it is i have a limited acess to that river for the browns/ but with // permission i fish away oh arnold did you know at one time the lynn river was the most renowned brown trout stream in canada yes arnold it was still has plenty there to catch and release../ happy fishing arnold8 /// i do haqve a good time at it/// fisherman///[:eek:)]
     
  4. Stick

    Stick Well-Known Member

    quote:
    Originally posted by fisherman

    [}:)]the fish are there , arnold , you just have to make less noise to catch em,as far as reasoning goes think out side the box ,the spawn habits have changed some day i will let you in on the new habits of these fish.,but mabey your good friend piggy will help you ,, arnold im pulling your leg its a joke ,,[:eek:)]i had a fab fall fishing season from caledonia,, to the inner bay i personaly released 200 small trout over the fall ,,fishing days ..none were hurt as they were caqught in shallow waters and big river called the grand i do tons of fishing every day and am sucessfull an some days i come away skunked and im still happy that im, able to be free and do this thanks to people like my grandson who is a service member and my grand daughter who did a tour of the eastern war zone so arnold pucker up better days ahead and the silver lake deal what about acess to the lynn // private property holders wouldnt be to happy about trespassers woul;d they as it is i have a limited acess to that river for the browns/ but with // permission i fish away oh arnold did you know at one time the lynn river was the most renowned brown trout stream in canada yes arnold it was still has plenty there to catch and release../ happy fishing arnold8 /// i do haqve a good time at it/// fisherman///[:eek:)]



    Fisherman. With all due respect, when you respond to a post would you please use spell and grammar check that comes with Microsoft Word so we can all understand what you are trying to say. I'm not sure if you are trying to disrespect a valued member of this board or add some valuable information to the topic? I'm not trying to take a jab at you since we have never met. I'm just trying to understand what you are trying to add to this topic.

    Stick

    [​IMG]


    As the Sun breaks above the ground
    An old man stands on the hill
    As the ground warms to the first rays of light
    A birdsong shatters the still

    His eyes are ablaze
    See the madman in his gaze
     
  5. Stick

    Stick Well-Known Member

    Arnie. I can understand your frustration with your words being manipulated by the media on the very hot topic of ridding the Lynne of an unnecessary dam. My feelings are that the author of the article has their own agenda and was trying to discredit a very knowledgeable and respected LPB angler.



    Stick

    [​IMG]


    As the Sun breaks above the ground
    An old man stands on the hill
    As the ground warms to the first rays of light
    A birdsong shatters the still

    His eyes are ablaze
    See the madman in his gaze
     
  6. duckduckgoose

    duckduckgoose Active Member

    I saw this in the reformer and wondered if someone would bring it up; I'm glad that you brought it up yourself...
     
  7. stomp

    stomp Administrator Staff Member

    I haven't been following this issue closely (and maybe I should keep it that way), but is the LPBAA siding with those who want to keep the dam? The content posted on the LPBAA site and the apparent lack of support for Duck Soup's statements would lead one to think so. I can't see how taking such a stance would go towards supporting the Association's mission to "promote and protect the sport fishery of Long Point Bay". Maybe Lynn River carp are what Long Point sport anglers should be going for these days?
     
  8. fisherman

    fisherman Well-Known Member

    8Dowhhhhoooo verly verly sorlly me english not to goodish didnt mean to step on the lords of lake eries toes ffs lill pun never hurt any one ?????oh mabey here cya have good days men8
     
  9. Caseys Dream

    Caseys Dream Well-Known Member

    quote:
    Originally posted by fisherman

    8Dowhhhhoooo verly verly sorlly me english not to goodish didnt mean to step on the lords of lake eries toes ffs lill pun never hurt any one ?????oh mabey here cya have good days men8



    WTF!
     
  10. Jwalsh

    Jwalsh Well-Known Member

    I think Fisherman has been eating to many paint chips and drinking way to much gasoline!! I am strong supporter of restoring the lynn, its to bad there are so many bone heads like this that want to keep Silver Lake the way it is.

    Justin Walsh
     
  11. duckduckgoose

    duckduckgoose Active Member

    quote:
    Originally posted by stomp

    I haven't been following this issue closely (and maybe I should keep it that way), but is the LPBAA siding with those who want to keep the dam? The content posted on the LPBAA site and the apparent lack of support for Duck Soup's statements would lead one to think so. I can't see how taking such a stance would go towards supporting the Association's mission to "promote and protect the sport fishery of Long Point Bay". Maybe Lynn River carp are what Long Point sport anglers should be going for these days?



    To me, the article doesn't say anything about the dam beyond DS's comment; it just says that the LPBAA hasn't taken an official stance on the subject. I'll give DS some credit and say that the reformer prints a lot of bad info, especially monte, but all i can see this article highlighting is that one person spoke on behalf of an entire group without the authority to do so (for the second time this year). It's very important to have an opinion on these things, but the opinions have to be delivered appropriately, and with the appropriate authority...
     
  12. archer

    archer Well-Known Member

    Is there any chance we could review the letter sent to see what the fuss was about?

    Paul Meisenheimer
     
  13. Caseys Dream

    Caseys Dream Well-Known Member

    I had to read that article again, it sounds like the LPBAA is distancing itself from the comments made by Arnie by siding (nuanced)with the MNR statements that the rainbow trout fishery is holding its own. This is the same MNR that has decided years ago to not stock anymore RB trout in Lake Erie and play the hope and pray game that US fish come over for the excellent exchange rate on the dollar. In other words, the LPBAA has no stance at this time.

    LPBAA does need to step in here with a definite stance on this subject, that is supposed to be their mandate. Being "unaware" his group, the LPBAA of which Rakoczki is the president, "has taken a position" is a bit ridiculous. What are you guys doing? Getting the holy grail of "not for profit corporation" charter is really nice for you, and the 2006 award for fisheries promotion for the Live Release boat was pretty cool, but guys!!! what what else are you guys doing?

    I would say my membership at this time is in limbo, awaiting some positive news that the LPBAA is actually doing what i thought it was mandated to do, protect the sport fishery in Long Poiint Bay, of which this discussion of the Misners Dam is one of the more important topics in a few years that impacts this fishery.

    Is the LPBAA just a business now, doing business stuff for self promotion and no longer a bunch of guys who care, love and will fight for the fishery of Long Point Bay? I'm saying that because that is how it started, a passionate group dedicated to fishery preservation. What happened along the way?

    CD
     
  14. Buckster

    Buckster Well-Known Member

    This is just another example of our local media manipulating and twisting information from a credible source. In my field, Norfolk County media is a laughing stock and is renowned for printing false and misleading information. It’s troublesome because it’s done intentionally to appease hidden agendas and aimed at the average/uninformed citizen who may not understand the situation/facts and can’t decipher the BS. They take that BS and reticulate it to the other uninformed citizens. It’s like a disease!!!! I’ve been in several debates with pro-dam individuals who truly believe it will only cost them 1 million to fix the dam and dredge the lake….just because “that’s what it said in the paper” – or “ I can get you the article.”

    Furthermore, I am absolutely infuriated with the comments made by Rick Misner. Who is this guy to determine what information is credible and what isn’t with respect to LPB fisheries? He’s about as credible as Norfolk Counties GM of public works…. For those of you who haven’t read the comments I’ve clipped a little blurb (see below). Mr. Misner, the only person not dealing with the facts is you! Trying to discredit someone who has spent a lifetime on LPB and who knows it like the back of his hand?

    here is the clipping from the Reformer...

    Rick Misner of Port Dover, chair of the town's Save Silver Lake committee, says angler success is not a reliable indicator offish numbers in any given ecosystem. Just because sport fishermen aren't catching the numbers they would like, Misner said, doesn't mean a population is struggling or collapsing.
    Misner added it is difficult to have a constructive discussion about complex issues when key decision-makers are fed potentially unreliable information.
    "It makes it very awkward to have a productive dialogue when someone is not dealing in the facts," he said.
    Norfolk County wants to spend $1.1 million to repair Misner Dam, a structure under Chapman Street East that makes the Silver Lake mill pond possible. The county and the MNR are negotiating a way forward on the matter.
    ----------------------

    Also, it’s truly sad to see LPBAA sitting on the back burner watching from a distance. I certainly won’t be renewing my membership if this organization won’t stand up for its core beliefs and concurs with the generalized BS comment made by MNR. I will certainly try and persuade others to do the same as well. This is an issue i would expect to see LPBAA all over.

    The media also portrays LPBAA as being on side with Dam repair. Who knows, maybe they are? They certainly haven’t taken a definitive stance on the matter and have been about as quiet as a mouse!

    This is not a Port Dover issue; this is a Norfolk County and Eastern Lake Erie Basin issue! It allowed to be repaired; this will set a horrible precedent with dams in Norfolk and Ontario. I will be fighting this to the end.
     
  15. BASS-master-Gordon

    BASS-master-Gordon Well-Known Member

    can someone get the ofah and lbaa in on this we have the resources and the members, let 'em have it,we have the guns and the ammo.

    fishing,for some a hobby, for most an addiction
     
  16. Buckster

    Buckster Well-Known Member

    We certainly do have the ammo, lets use it. there is enough credible sources that belong to this group to have a huge impact!
     
  17. BASS-master-Gordon

    BASS-master-Gordon Well-Known Member

    and wtf do carp do good? we need trout in that stream, better fishing in simcoe, more opportunities for young anglers, the old lynn needs a fix, screw silver lake and its sediment bottom, what is misners doing, providing a lake for rowers? is that who we are fighting?

    fishing,for some a hobby, for most an addiction
     
  18. Mumph

    Mumph Well-Known Member

    My question is,is the bow fishing as bad as some have made it out to be?For a few years we heard and read complaints of poor walleye but good bow fishing in LPB.The last two years fishermen gravitated to Pts. Bruce and Burwell because of the walleye success rates there.Also adding to frustrations in LPB is the number of sheepshead overwhelming fishermen.Last summer there really wasn't many reports for LPB because it seemed like most people went to Bruce and Burwell.So did people just assume the the bow fishing was gone just because of a general lack of interest in fishing LPB?I personally do not know anyone who tried the outer bay and only read a few reports on here of people who did try it.I for one followed the exodus westward just for the fact if I'm going to spend a day on the water and the gas to run the boat,I want the trip and time spent worth while(sheepshead aren't worthwhile lol).Just my two cents.
     
  19. Buckster

    Buckster Well-Known Member

    Good points. I tried the outer bay 3 or 4 times this year. Minimal success. We did manage a bow. I too jumped on the Burwell and Bruce bandwagon.

    I don’t know the official status of the outer bay rainbow fishery; I know enough to say it’s not what it was when I was fishing with my dad 10 years ago out there. In know way do I think this is attributed to Misners Dam. It could be several different factors influencing decline (if that’s the case). However, the real point is, from an ecological stand point and common sense; I do know that allowing the river to regain its natural state has far greater value, from several standpoints (namely ecological and economical) than a derelict dam.

    I will tell you one thing though! Rick Misner has no business whatsoever trying to determine what information is credible nor should he be rambling about correlating angling success and fish populations.

    If the Reformer wanted an opinion, why not contact the 2 biologists (former MNR and DFO) from the free the lynn group? Who might actually know a thing or two about our local rainbow fishery? Or, let’s quote some guy from a kids rowing club, who has nothing behind his name and wouldn’t know the difference between a Steelie and an Asian Carp - let’s quote Rick Misner! He thinks the fishery is doing well because he remembered how many of those golden brown “Rainbows” were frolicking around in silver lake before they dropped the dam!

    LPRCA has certainly taken a quiet stance too. There is no way they are in favour of repair. They have some great individuals who have done some pretty awesome things with the Lynn watershed. They need to get vocal and take a side instead of this middle man role. I know they have been involved heavily, for whatever reason wont publicize there position.

    I encourage all members of this site to go down to the former silver lake, and go see what’s transformed. It’s incredible.
     
  20. Dotcom

    Dotcom Well-Known Member

    All;Just want to inform everyone thats concerned with this issue that there is a bit more to the story then you can "read" in the recent Simcoe paper.
    I recieved a call at home from one of the reporters from the paper asking about the rainbow trout fishery in LPB. I explained to him that I didn't have any offical studies or reports on the "latest" catch information on the status of the trout in LPB we would get that from the MNR along with any other info on other species.
    I also told him that the small number of Offshore Charter boats that make LP there home port may also be an indication of the fishery, versus say Burwell and Bruce.

    He came back to then ask me then why has the LPBAA "declared" LPB dead as far as Rainbows were concerned?
    At this point I'm confused, I asked him what he was referring to and he told me of a letter that the LPBAA had sent out declaring LPB dead as far as rainbows were concerned....
    At this point, I explained I knew of no such letter, but in the Dec 2010 Baywatch edition our resident year end author DS, reported that again "U.S.stock failed to make an appearance and the home grown stock is inadequate". Base on his own fishing experinces
    This is not news folks, for those that have followed DS's year end reports he has been ringing the alarm on the trout issue in his reports for most of this decade if memory serves me.

    At no time did the reporter ask about the dam issue nor the LPBAA stance on this political football, just to let everyone know too at the last LPBAA directors meeting it was agreed across the board
    that the LPBAA would back the removal of the dam to allow the Lynn to return to its natural state. I have tried to post every item that I read about the status of the meetings/updatesand issues surrounding this project on the news items on lpbaa.ca for everyone to read and to be informed, this is also an agenda item for the AGM in April 2011.
    For those that suggest the the LPBAA is backing away on this issue, I can assure you we are not, I want to meet with Dr. Bowyer from the Simcoe Fish and Game Club (they have been running with this issue in the media too) to find out where they are heading and where the LPBAA can help out in the cause.
    And before I forget, someones comment that myself or the LPBAA "abandoned" DS in comments...not so at all unfortunately I didn't know about DS's letter I thought this reporter was fishing for a story trying to coherse me into some juicy tit bit for his story,I have too much respect for DS to do anything of the sort, I can assure you.

    One last item...just want to let the indivdual know that asked the question below, the "guys who care" are still here...and I personally welcome anyone that would like to become "guys that care" also,just shoot me an email or call me (519)842-0025 we can use all the "care" that we can find....8D
    "Is the LPBAA just a business now, doing business stuff for self promotion and no longer a bunch of guys who care, love and will fight for the fishery of Long Point Bay? I'm saying that because that is how it started, a passionate group dedicated to fishery preservation. What happened along the way?"

    Sorry for the long winded note, I don't join in very often, but was given a heads up that maybe this was a good time that I should, not only to give you the real story but more importantly to lend DS the support he deserves.
    Don't be surprized if you guys are called upon to do something to help out in the dam issue....more news to come

    John Rakoczi

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Chromeseeker

    Chromeseeker Well-Known Member

    There is a reason Jimmy Riggin is fishin out of Pt Bruce for the summer instead of LPB. It's all about putting fish in the boat and you can't guarantee that for the customers in LPB.

    As for Duck Soups comments I believe he puts more time in on the water than anyone including the MNR so he should be looked upon as an authority as to what is or is not biting in the bay. Personally I'd like to see another river open up for drifting for bows. If the stocking programs are done then there needs to be more spawning river opened up for the fish to procreate.

    Rob
     
  22. Stick

    Stick Well-Known Member

    John. You and the LPBAA have my full support. Just made the cheque out and will drop it off on the weekend. As a former director I know that it is not always easy or fashionable to be one of the few to make the decisions that can affect so many. There will always be the ones that will doubt the work being done in the background yet they will be the first ones to bitch and complain then jump from their seats at the end of the annual meeting (if they even bother to go) to get out of the building before someone asks them to do something. I resigned as a director because I knew that I could not commit the time and effort that was needed to do what had to be done as well as work 2 jobs and try to keep my household together. I would rather abandon that chair and leave a space for someone that maybe could commit more than I can. I'm only a creek rat, and very proud to be one. Outside of my family, fishing our local tribs means more to me than anything in this world. Those few that I call good friends know how deep those waters run within me. I read this forum every day just to keep connected to the waters that I drive over every day to go to work and get to spend so little time on. It just pisses me off to read some of the posts and newspaper articles that seem to make light of the hard work many have done in the past to get to where we are at this moment.

    Stick

    [​IMG]


    As the Sun breaks above the ground
    An old man stands on the hill
    As the ground warms to the first rays of light
    A birdsong shatters the still

    His eyes are ablaze
    See the madman in his gaze
     
  23. Caseys Dream

    Caseys Dream Well-Known Member

    John (Dotcom);
    Thank you whole heartedly for your eloquent reply, it was just what we (I) needed to hear. I applaud your stance on this issue and see once again that the LBPAA is that worthy group of people who indeed truly care, the one's that make a difference. My support continues, emboldened by your comments. Are there any suggestions for further actions/donations for legal fees etc that could help?

    Stick;

    T'would seem your comments are directed toward myself, and others...

    ("There will always be the ones that will doubt the work being done in the background yet they will be the first ones to bitch and complain then jump from their seats at the end of the annual meeting (if they even bother to go) to get out of the building before someone asks them to do something.")

    However I can assure you that this is normally the process, and does not relate to "bitching" as you eloquently descried. People like me, are not in the know as far as the nitty-gritty of details, and forums such as these are perfect places to voice opinions, and become educated, this is the process. John did a great thing in letting us know the details, stuff that behind the scenes and the real story behind the story. This is not bitching, it is learning. If anything, it allowed the members reading this forum string to all become educated, and actually show us all the LPBAA stance, which was shown to be unknown by most of us, to be clearly outlined thanks to Dotcom. If anything, this should now also embolden support for LPBAA, where a day ago, I think many people were indeed "wondering". I was not alone here, and John Rakoczi 100% cleared that up.

    CD

    PS I hate Iron Maiden
     
  24. Fish em All

    Fish em All Well-Known Member

    Wow!! Thank-you Duck Soup for having the guts to speak up and say something about the poor quality of the offshore fishery in LPB. We were always interested in the deepest waters of Lake Erie off of long point but never had much experience fishing them. We took a charter a few years back out of LPB to fish for jumbo lakers(wasn't aware of the fishery) and didn't catch any which was disappointing. We know alot of fisherman who have fished LPB offshore, and struggled to catch anything other than the odd walleye and alot of sheepshead. Thank goodness for the USA and their rainbow stocking programs or there wouldn't be much of anything to fish for on Lake Erie. Our MNR stocking and management programs are a joke, and if they followed similar American stocking plans, the fishing out on Erie would be world class.

    Anything That Swims
    Fish em All
     
  25. Stick

    Stick Well-Known Member

    C D, I didn’t direct my comments at you per se. When I was a director I heard from a lot of individuals on various things that the LPBAA were doing wrong or the DDAA were doing wrong or the MNR were doing wrong and listened to the same guys at meetings sounding like a broken record when the MNR reps came to the meetings over and over again. Yet when these individuals were asked to contribute a little time for a project or to help out all I kept hearing was that it was “our job” because we were the executive or I’ll check my schedule and get back to you.
    I was more trying to back John and the LPBAA executives up and to curtail the bitching here on a forum that does none of us any good except to give the bitcher some place to vent. The real place to bitch is to your councillors, your MPP’s and your MP’s. As volunteers, club executives can only do so much without the backing of individual constituents in the political realm that the powers that be have to live within and gain votes.
    John has graciously posted his phone number for those that wish to contact him and speak their minds or volunteer their time to help the cause to try and keep Long Point Bay as the world class fishery that it is. I urge anyone that can, to talk to John or any other executive member and assist these folks in anyway they can to assure as best we can that the fishery we inherited is as good as it can be for the future generations that want to enjoy it as we all have been able to.

    PS
    About Maiden
    The Flight of Icarus has always reminded me that no matter how good things can be, there is always something that can bring you crashing to the ground in a ball of fire. Keeps me somewhat level headed when the fall fishery explodes and the adrenaline from chrome keeps me high as a kite for weeks throughout the most beautiful season of the year. (My daughters name is Autumn Dawn for a very good reason.) But then again there must be a reason why I wake the birds in the fall to Metallica and the San Francisco Philharmonic Orchestra. Could it be that I am just an “Outlaw Torn”?
    Happy New Year to you and yours and everyone else here on 68, be you contributor or lurker!


    Stick

    [​IMG]


    As the Sun breaks above the ground
    An old man stands on the hill
    As the ground warms to the first rays of light
    A birdsong shatters the still

    His eyes are ablaze
    See the madman in his gaze
     
  26. stomp

    stomp Administrator Staff Member

    To Dotcom,

    Thanks for making clear where the LPBAA stands on the matter. Maybe this will turn out to be one victory in what seems to me to have been a series of defeats in the battle to protect the Long Point Bay offshore fishery.
     
  27. kevin

    kevin Well-Known Member

    The numbers of bows caught in LPB are definately down, everyone who fishes offshore sees that. However, back when the MNR stocked many fish on the Canadian side, alot of those fish were basically put and take, similar to the U.S plantings. But just because numbers are down offshore doesn't mean the fishery is hurting. A few thousand natural fish in the creeks, once spread out in the lake, would be pretty hard to intercept. It's just like the West Coast. Rivers such as the Skeena, get large runs of wild steelhead, yet you NEVER see anyone catch one trolling in the open ocean. Offshore fishing is not necessarily a good indicator of overall population density. The U.S side dumps ridiculous numbers of fish in, and they have next to nothing in terms of good spawning habitat, other than maybe the upper stretches and tribs of Cattaraugus creek. So I can understand the MNR's side on this. We have good spawning habitat, and they would like to see the streams have stable, naturally reproducing runs that don't rely on stocking.

    Back in the days of the MNR stocking big numbers over here, yes there were more fish, but the creeks were packed full of stockers, which were spawning with the few naturally reproduced fish, resulting in minimal reproduction. They're doing the same thing in NY state right now in Cattaraugus, by cutting back the stocking hoping the naturally reproducing fish will benefit from it.

    Look at the Grand river/Port Maitland. That river has an awesome run of self sustaining fish. How many of those do you hear of caught off Maitland? Not many.
     
  28. angler

    angler Well-Known Member

    I don't have a lot of background info but I have a couple of questions.
    How long has the dam been on the river? I thought a long time and therefore would not be a factor in rainbow demise? Fishing is still good in grand for rainbows.
    Lynn river has more browns in it than any river I have fished in for browns for over forty years(although fairly small fish and larger fish appear somewhat underfed)and it is a small river. Would not a run of large rainbows affect this brown population?
    I have not given too much thought but am moving to within walking distance of river within three months and was looking forward to the brown fishing(all catch and release).
    This may sound silly ,at a minimum uninformed, but I would have thought all the goose dung going into the river in Simcoe would be a greater threat.
    I would welcome comment.
     
  29. walleye5

    walleye5 Active Member

    as we all know the fishing offshore for walleye and rainbow has declined in the bay and offshore,as a charter boat operator on the bay in the 1990's and earlier there were lean years and very productive years we still get that now but the fishing drastically dropped the last few years you can have all the scientific explainations you want but the fish are not there. I support tearing down the damn making more habitat but without the MNR stocking it wont recover as there are not a lot of fish that use these rivers.as you know all the fish don't run on the same day so to say a few thousand fish are more noticed in the river well if they ran at once ok but divided amongst all the creeks points at poor returns. as far as ocean steelhead the west coast of VANCOUVER ISLAND you can surf fish for them.we are lucky to have people like STOMP around never met the man but his love and dedication is to be commended.as far as MR. MISNER is concerned ask him how much damage the nets have caused.how many steelhead the trawlers killed... man incidental catch I forgot.there are a lot more reasons for the state of the fisheries but if we dont stock and manage we can build all the habitat you want.
     
  30. fergy57

    fergy57 Member

    Wow.http://www.simcoereformer.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2907055Quotes from the article, re-posted link for quote reference.Quotes:

    "Misner added it is difficult to have a constructive discussion about complex issues when key decision-makers are fed potentially unreliable information.

    "It makes it very awkward to have a productive dialogue when someone is not dealing in the facts," he said."

    "Rick Misner of Port Dover, chair of the town's Save Silver Lake committee, says angler success is not a reliable indicator offish numbers in any given ecosystem. Just because sport fishermen aren't catching the numbers they would like, Misner said, doesn't mean a population is struggling or collapsing."

    Really? So the president of the organization opposed to removing the dam says something, and we take is as fact? Hmmmmm.


    "The MNR was also surprised to hear of the rainbow's collapse.

    "I was talking to the people in the Lake Erie Management Unit and their reaction was `What!?'" said MNR spokesperson Jolanta Kowalski. "At this point, I can't attest to anything that would back this up. Staff says rainbow trout is doing well in our lakes and streams.""

    Wait, staff says its ok, so its ok, right? Must be fact. Lets not even check the numbers, its all good. (/sarcasm).
    ______________________________________________________________________


    The bias in this article is unbelieveable.

    Luckily, the reporter left his email and phone number in the article. I, for one, am going to e-mail and call, asking for a fair article.
     
  31. BASS-master-Gordon

    BASS-master-Gordon Well-Known Member

    the lynn has the potential to have spawning runs, that river is so dammed up its unbelievable, and for what? to sit there and rot, thats exactly what it is, so let those **** birds keep ****ting in there and let them keep lowering water levels and dredging to get rid of it, idk where you get browns in the lynn, but it sure as hell aint anywheres close to simcoe.

    fishing,for some a hobby, for most an addiction
     
  32. BASS-master-Gordon

    BASS-master-Gordon Well-Known Member

    and can someone tell me why those dams are there? like we really need all of them,misners is the first step, and these dam should have fish bridges on them.

    fishing,for some a hobby, for most an addiction
     
  33. Buckster

    Buckster Well-Known Member

    Thanks for clearing that up dotcom re: lpbaa's position/involvement with misners dam.
    Maybe i'm in the dark, but it appears many were/are unaware of lpbaa's position, myself included. I had no idea and i have been following closely since day one. Thats very encouraging to hear, excellent post! It would be nice to see some accurate pro removal coverage for a change. Nearly everything published is inaccurate, a mis-quote or a full on crock of S***. Dennis Wright had a great "letter to the editor" in the reformer a couple weeks ago - he should step in for monte sonneberg....

    check out this article from the spectator that came out yesterday. Very similar to Misners - below


    Dam Decision tough, correct

    Striking a balance between being environmentally and socially responsible is never easy. The Hamilton Conservation Authority’s decision to go ahead with a $1-million project to demolish the aging Crooks Hollow Dam in Greensville is a good example.

    In case you missed this story, it centres around the decision to go ahead with the plan to remove the dam and rehabilitate the river system in the area to return it to a pre-dam state. Local residents, hundreds of whom signed petitions and protested the plan, are predictably unhappy. And if you’ve visited the area to enjoy the scenic and sensory pleasures offered by Crooks Hollow, you might understand why they disagree with the decision, which will undoubtedly alter the bucolic landscape they are accustomed to, and in fact might have moved to the area to enjoy.

    But the dam, which was built in the early 1900s to serve as a water supply for Dundas, is badly in need of repair and reconstruction. The estimated cost of that work is $1.2 to 1.4 million, which makes it considerably more expensive than the cost of removing all or most of the structure and letting Spencer Creek rush through as it did before dam was built. There are factors other than cost to consider. The dam does not serve any flood-control purpose. In fact, now that Dundas’s water supply is Lake Ontario, the only real reason for the dam is aesthetic — the structure and the adjacent 600-metre-long reservoir offer a peaceful and beautiful respite from urban life, as well as a home for flora and fauna.

    What should the conservation authority have done? Pay a higher price to rebuild the dam, or remove it and restore the area creek and river to its original form, before it was altered by the dam and by location of numerous mills and other manifestations of human settlement?

    The answer, with greatest respect to area residents and others who have fought to keep the dam, is the latter. In this era of fiscal restraint, any taxpayer-funded organization that chooses a more expensive decision over a cheaper one needs to have a very good reason. And that reason does not exist in this case. Just imagine the furor directed at the HCA had it chosen the higher-cost option with the only rationale being to respect the sensitivities of people who live in the area? And it’s not as if the HCA is removing the dam in favour of less-rustic development. In fact, Spencer Creek and area will end up being closer to its original state than before, and that is bound to have positive impact on the local environment overall.

    This had to have been a tough call for HCA board members. But their obligation in the end is to the larger group of stakeholders who have an interest in conservation holdings, and expect decisions to be made with the big picture, not local parochial interests, front and centre. In that context, this is the right thing to do.

    Howard Elliott


    pretty similar!
     
  34. The Nomad

    The Nomad New Member

    I think you are all forgetting about Ivey's dam a mile up the stream from Misner's dam. No fish will get past it and it can't be removed as it's a heritage site. If it was removed, no more Lynn River - just a creek. I often wonder what the people in Simcoe would think if the dam was removed behind Gauld Electric. No more Park system in Simcoe. Just a mesquito infested creek with lots of weeds in the downtown park - sort of like Sutton's Pond. Thanks.
     
  35. jordy

    jordy Member

    Fish should be able to get over Ivey's dam in high water. Also, I am sure some modifications could be made to it. Removal of dams actually will help the river because it will increase flow and will not affect the size of the river. Slow dammed up mill ponds are much better mosquito breeding habitat than cold, clear, fast moving water.
     
  36. kevin

    kevin Well-Known Member

    Removing dams, and opening streams back up into their natural state is great. But one dam, on one stream will not increase offshore numbers of Rainbows.

    I've been a steelie fisherman for years, just like many on this board. I've always had a great time fishing in any of the area tribs, and for the most part, I rarely catch a fin-clipped fish, or a fish with dorsal fin wear due to hatchery crowding. With that said, it's probably safe to say that the streams have self-supporting runs of naturally reproducing fish, with a few U.S stocked strays. Now, when I fish the U.S tribs, it's completely different. The fish are stacked like wood, easy to catch, and close to 100% are clipped or hatchery raised. For me personally, it's a treat to fish the Norfolk/Simcoe area tribs.

    Yes, perhaps numbers are down offshore, walleye and bows. I fish hard all summer, and even though it was a great season, it was a bit slower than last. But I think there are lots of other issues that need to be addressed as well.

    As for the walleye fishing, why are there so many open seasons on walleye during prime spawning? Why do so many of the spawners running up detroit river, or the large females in the western end of the lake end up on stringers? Yes, commercial fishing is huge too, but if the season were closed, or a slot put in place for the winter/ice season, maybe the walleye numbers would begin to increase?

    As for the bows, the U.S side stocks such a huge number of fish it's incredible. Maybe a study should be done to see if there is a reason why many of those fish aren't utilizing the offshore waters of LPB? This season alone, I have caught 3 tagged bows from the Buffalo NY area that were tagged at Huron river at the far west end of Erie. When I called them in, I was told there were dozens of tags called in already, most from the far east end of the lake. The ones I caught were in Buffalo, at the extreme opposite end from where the fish were planted. So they ARE wandering, and using the entire lake, maybe for some reason not LPB.

    But in terms of stocking, if local tribs have healthy numbers of spawners, why stock? If the available spawning water in the area is at it's proper population density, why add more?
     
  37. Buckster

    Buckster Well-Known Member

    Kevin, i dont think any correlation should be drawn between misners dam and LPB rainbow populations. Would dropping the dam have a noticable impact on LPB rainbow populations offshore? probably not anything spectacular, but dropping the dam is the right thing to do from an economic and ecological stand point. All in all, allowing migratory trout access up stream is only one aspect of this issue. Removing misners is a start and will help set a precedent in dealing with derelict dams in norfolk and ontario. The point is, it served its purpose, it had a good run, but all things must come to an end sooner or later, and unfortunately for misners dam and silver lake, the time is now.

    Despite what some may think, the lynn river would make for an awesome steelie river. Forget about iveys dam for now, suitable spawning habitat can be found all through the lower lynn stretch of river, minus the shale and limestone areas close to the dam, but down from the bridge toward the lake i think you would be pleasantly suprised at what has resurfaced since the dam was dropped. I witnessed first hand last spring, fish spawning in that stretch, and the fingerlings and smolt are now kicking aroung proving that spawning success can be had if the conditions are right. Hell i fished it on opener and had a rockin day!! certainly was worth cancelling my trip up to G-Bay.

    I totally agree with your view on stocking. We dont need to dilute the gene pool, similar to that of the catt and eighteen mile across the lake. The streams we have that are currently pumping out steel are doing just fine, and i wouldnt trade them for any river across the province!

    it sure would be nice to have another one! ;)
     
  38. kevin

    kevin Well-Known Member

    I agree, the removal of the dam would be great. I'm just saying, I don't believe it's going to contribute to any major increase in overall rainbow population in the lake.

    Why is it that the commercial fishermen hammer the offshore area of longpoint so hard? I know, a bit off topic, but my last several trips to the area I've seen numerous nets, EVERY time. It's got to be having an impact.

    Down here in the Eastern end, I rarely see the nets set up in the same area.
     
  39. angler

    angler Well-Known Member

    Rainbow are fantastic to catch;however,if a rainbow run spoils the brown trout habitat and puts pressure on the brown trout population I don't see how you have gained anything.Stream browns are great to fish for and possibly more of a challenge.
     
  40. SRT8

    SRT8 Well-Known Member

    quote:
    Originally posted by angler

    Rainbow are fantastic to catch;however,if a rainbow run spoils the brown trout habitat and puts pressure on the brown trout population I don't see how you have gained anything.Stream browns are great to fish for and possibly more of a challenge.



    Take a look at the CRAA website they have proven that lake run steelhead (And Atlantics) co habitate with resident browns and rainbows with minimal affects and the Credit river is a world class fishery even though it's a slaughter when the salmon are in.

    [​IMG]
     
  41. Stick

    Stick Well-Known Member

    quote:
    Originally posted by angler

    Rainbow are fantastic to catch;however,if a rainbow run spoils the brown trout habitat and puts pressure on the brown trout population I don't see how you have gained anything.Stream browns are great to fish for and possibly more of a challenge.



    I have to agree with you here Angler. I haven't fished the Lynn except for Miseners downstream in years. It was exceptional brown water up above when I did fish there years ago and mixing with alot of rainbows may not be a good thing but with Ivey Dam in the way I think all but the strongest Rainbows would be held below it. A few Rainbows spawning up above though would definitely add to the food source for those browns that were originally stocked by the MNR and now, from my information are virtually holding their own without supplemental stocking.

    Stick

    [​IMG]
     
  42. Buckster

    Buckster Well-Known Member

    Definately a good point to raise. Personally, I don't believe the numbers would be there to have a disasterous impact on the lynn's brown fishery. At the end of the day, its irrelevant which none native trout species Is the primary target. The dam really shouldn't be there if it no longer serves a purpose.

    Browns or steelies, I'm content either way.......as long as the right decision is made.
     
  43. quinner01

    quinner01 Well-Known Member

    You would have a lot more lake run browns and steelhead running up Lynn River, without the dam there...even if it doesnt make it the a top notch trout fishery, I think it would be greatly improved. I think the Browns would handle themselves quite well.

    [​IMG]
     

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